Oil Change Info!
 

LONG POST (sorry!). Just changed my oil this evening, and wanted to give anyone doing this themselves a few hints...

This was my first oil change... I'm at 8,500 miles and the maintenance minder shows 15% remaining. I'd wait longer, but I'm sick of the wrench light coming on each time I start the car!

I parked in my driveway which is on a slight slope. The rear of the car is lower than the front... and this is perfect, because the drain plug is at the rear of the aluminum oil pan.

Most will say run the engine until warm. I chose not to do this, since the car was sitting overnight and the oil is so thin (warming the oil so it gets thinner and drains back easier isn't a problem!). Some may say you change it with hot oil so the sediments are in solution... but to me, if I get more oil out, I've accomplished the same task. With complete drainback (overnight) and low viscosity oil, I get as complete a draining as you could ask for... and I don't burn my hands in the process!

My first task was to remove the big plastic lower cover. I found one of the nine locking pins already broken off. Don't know if it was a rock or an assembly line goof, but the head was gone. I had no choice but to shatter the rest upon removal. I will replace it with the correct one, but in the mean time, I used a "christmas tree" clip... a plastic trim clip that looks like a screw with plastic fins where the threads would be. It holds it just fine.

Getting the lower cover down is a pain in the arse! Some of the clips give up easily, others need coaxing to pop out the centers. There are two 10mm bolts in the rear which do NOT have to be removed. The two up front do have to come out.

The center plastic pin was difficult to reach, so I got my floor jack out and just raised one side a few inches to get better access under the car. The rest of the process could easily be done with no lifting whatsoever.

Once the cover was off, I removed the drain plug. No problems. Oil came out easy, fast and straight. This 0w20 stuff really drains quickly, even when cool. I let it drain for 30 minutes, but it was down to slow drips after just a couple of minutes! I got out 3.4 quarts of old oil! That's the exact fill quantity. I can't believe that an engine can go 8,500 miles and not use a drop of oil. That's great!!!

Oil filter was next. Book says you don't need to change it on the first oil change, but what the heck... I'm under there anyway, and I don't really want to leave a few ounces of dirty oil in that filter (makes up for that sediment issue I mentioned before!). This was my first Honda oil change... and the filter is TINY. None of my three oil filter wrenches would touch it. I figured I'd just get the old one off with a big pipe wrench (worked fine) and I could screw the new one on by hand (like every filter I've changed in the past 30 years!). NOPE!! Instructions on this (genuine honda) filter were to turn 3/4 turn after the gasket contacts the mating surface. I could only get it about 1/2 turn by hand. Luckily, my brother has a Kia and they use small filters, too. He had the small wrench. Worked just fine to get the last 1/4 turn.

I reinserted the drain plug with a new "crush washer". Despite what had been said in another thread about the washer being bi-metalic, that was NOT the case here. I even cut the old one in half. It's just a hunk of solid aluminum. Nevertheless, I installed a new one. Torqued the bolt to 29 ft-lb.

While under there, I noted some oil stained dirt around some of the CVT bolts and pan. I wiped it off, and will need to keep an eye on that. Everything else under there looked fine.

I poured in 3.4 quarts of Mobil One (purchased at Walmart for $4.95 / qt.). Started the engine and then checked for leaks (none). Reinstalled the lower cover (not too bad getting it back on)... and then reset the maintenance minder thing in the dash by following the directions in the owner's manual.

Oil change done... cost... about $25 for oil and filter. I'll do the tire rotation tomorrow, and then I'm all done!

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Thanks for the detailed info. Does the car's puter reset itself after? Whadya think an oil change runs locally for comparison?

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Nope... You have to hit the select button until it is displaying the oil life. Then you hold the select button in for 10 seconds and the display flashes. Press the button again and hold it for 5 seconds and it resets to 100% oil life.

As for local pricing for oil changes... I've seen quite a few postings for $40... some for $80... and a few for over $100. I don't recall which part of the country these came from. I'm guessing the So. Cal ones would be on the high end of it.

Frankly, I wouldn't care if the dealer charged $25... I'd still do it myself. I know it's done right... and I have a chance to inspect other stuff while I'm doing the oil change. That, and I enjoy doing my own work (that one's pretty important!!!).

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

$40 for oil change here. My A1 came up at 7500. The dealer charged another $40 for tire rotation/balancing (ow!).

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Jeff, excellent play by play however you did not say if you had to jack the car up to get under? Also I have had 12 other Hondas before and always changed the oil myself and wondering why do you have to leave that stewwwwpid undercarriage plastic on there? I suppose it has to do with air flow??? It seems that most of your time changing the oil is removing and reinstalling that thing. Wonder if you would even notice any difference in mileage if you just left off? Also where did you buy the filter?

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Bnsfengineer... your answers...

1) I only jacked up the car a couple of inches on one side to gain easier access to the center pin on the lower cover. I could have done it without jacking it up. This, of course, will depend upon how large you are!!! NO lifting was needed for any other access to oil drain or filter access.

2) You could just remove the cover, but it is supposed to have some impact on MPG. I also like the fact that stuff remains clean above the cover. Makes it easier to spot oil leaks coming from your vehicle (instead of oil splashed on the under-surfaces from the road). I've heard that you could just remove the front clips and bolts from the cover and fold it back enough to gain access to the drain plug and filter. This would cut the access time back considerably. I didn't try this, but it looks like it would be possible.

3) Bought my filter (and the drain plug washer) from the Honda dealer. I think it was about $6.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

To add to your sentiments about the undercarriage plastic, IIRC that piece is only on the US version according to the owners manual, not on the Canadian version. I wonder what regulation or rule or other difference does not allow or recommend that piece to be standard issue for Canadian Hybrids also ? At least it only has to be dealt with every 8500 miles or so....

And to the original poster, thank you for the writeup on the oil change. The other thing I wondered is how you rotate your tires at home. Basically just jack up one side of the car and rotate front to rear, and then the other side front to rear?

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

VERY good question! I was seconds away from posting that exact question!!!! When I went to do the tire rotation (yesterday) I was hunting for jacking points. My goal was to get the front end on jack stands and then raise the rear with my floor jack. That would allow the cross-pattern rotation.

My owner's manual only shows the jacking points for the standard car jack (the reinforced areas on the sides between the front and rear wheels). I did notice the big tie-down hooks and reasonably stout looking flat area in the front (left and right side) which APPEAR to be decent jacking or support points, but I'm not 100% certain. These are the ONLY front areas which are NOT covered by the big plastic lower cover. When I jacked up the car a couple of inches (as stated in my original post... for access to the center lock pin on the lower cover), this is where I did my lifting... but I never even got the front tire off the ground. I didn't want to go higher until I confirmed this was an "approved" jacking point.

Does anyone know (or have access to the official workshop manual) where the jacking or lift / hoist support points are located? Is that tie down hook area okay???

As an alternative, I could just lift one wheel at a time and use the spare tire in the rotation pattern... removing it at the end. That would require five lifts and five removal / replacements of a wheel. A pain, but it would certainly work.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Per the service manual, the rear jacking point if lifting with a floor jack is the tow hook itself. Unfortunately, you'll need a hi-lift jack to really do anything there. I've got a Craftsman 3-ton Truck/SUV jack that does a good job, and they had it on sale recently for about $60. The first time I lifted the car with a floor jack, I didn't know about the 'official lift points', and gouged the undercoating a bit when I used a flat area of the floor pan / chassis to lift with.

The front jacking point is a small rectangular metal piece (about 2" x 4", flat) in the center of the front subframe, between the ft. fascia undercover and the main front undercover. There's an arrow pointing to it stamped on the fascia undercover plastic. A wide saddle floor jack would extend past both ends; a narrow / conventional saddle hits the area on both sides, ft / rear. So be more careful when lifting if you don't have a wide saddle (I don't).

Don't use the front tow hooks as a lift point if you can help it - I don't think they'd handle the weight.

The lift points are at the four corners of the passenger compartment - directly behind the front wheels and in front of the back wheels. If you look under the car, you'll see a couple of ~ 2" areas with curved & reinforced body weld / frame points. This is where your scissors (tire change) jack and jack stands go. It's also where the tech is supposed to place the rack when your car goes on a lift.

If you have one set of jack stands and a floor jack, you can loosen the lug nuts on the wheels, jack the front of the car up, put your jack stands under the front lift points, and then use your pantaframe to lift one rear wheel. Criss-cross the front tires (so, the ft. pass. tire goes to the rear drivers' side and vice-versa, and move the two tires on the back straight forward (rear driver becomes ft. driver side tire). This will require three jack lifts (four if you lowered the floor jack after putting the car on the front stands).

You can use just the scissors jack and the spare in the rotation (as a 'placeholder' of sorts), but as mentioned, you will need to lift / drop the car five times - that's a LOT of turning of the scissors jack!

Best solution I found is to get a second pair of stands; I can then have all four tires off the vehicle if I want, and only two easy lifts with the floor jack are needed (I don't have to use the scissors jack at all!). Ok, three, because I lowered the jack on one end. But it's much easier to deal with a floor jack than the scissors.

Finish torque the lug nuts in an alternating star pattern to 80ft-lbs. Done.

Also, it goes without saying - do NOT get under the car when it's supported only by the scissors jack. Put the car on ramps or stands. I prefer stands because it leaves the wheels free if I want to rotate the tires, and I can lift the stands higher than pre-formed ramps. Still can't lift high enough to just drop the front of the undercover, though - I have to remove it each time. My kingdom for a lift! LOL

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

GreenAndBlue... thanks for the very useful info! I do have a decent floor jack with a narrow saddle. I think it gets 22" of lift (I bought it for my SUV), so that should be just fine. I only have two stands, so my thought was to lift front from the subframe area you mentioned and place the stands at the official front jacking points, lower the jack... move it to the rear and lift from the center to basically have the car up on three points.

Is the rear tow hook you mentioned in the center of the rear (I can't look right now!!!)? That would be important for proper balance. If so, this should work just fine. I've supported much heavier cars this way. As long as the lugs are broken free before the lifting is done, it should be quite safe.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

The rear tow hook is visible from the back of the car as you stand behind it - it's right in the center.

Myself, I'd lift it the opposite way with two stands - put the stands under the *rear* points, then jack up the front at the subframe and use that as your single point. I used a cheapy 15" jack with some weights stacked to get to the rear point - and the car fell off the jack when I bumped it :omg: (thankfully, I had stands underneath the rear, so I got away with some (more) scraped undercoating - a can of the spray-on stuff from the auto parts store took care of that.) But you can see why I'm a bit leery of using the rear jacking point with a jack alone.

That 22" should suit you well - it'll reach the back end fine. My T&SUV jack is a 21", and it reaches the back to get the tires off the ground with a bit of room to spare. Still not enough to flip the hinge on the front undercover, though - I'd save SO much time if it could! :angry:

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

GreenAndBlue... Thanks again!!! Based upon your recommendation, I'll reverse the process (lift rear and use stands in rear, then lift from the front sub frame for the front support). I've got air tools, so this should speed up the process (and minimize the time she's balancing up there!). I'll do the wheel torque (80 ft-lb, I believe you said?) back on the ground.

Hmmm... just remembered that my driveway slopes a bit. Might be safer to do this on the flat street. unfortunately, my air hose won't reach there, though!

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Sorry but my vehicle (Canadian version 06 Civic hybrid) actually has the undercarriage plastic panel that MUST be removed for the oil changes. I've confirmed this with the dealership and they verified that this contradicts the Service manual (which I have) and the owner's manual as well.

Goes to show you that even the existing documentation is not representative of the actual goods. ;)


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

I've just pulled my plastic shield off. Besides complicating oil changes, it lowers the underside by close to 2" in some spots. With it off there are a few zones almost as low, but overall the underside is a lot higher.

OTOH, while the shield is low, it deflects up easily: you can push it up with your fingers. So as far as clearance goes it's debatable.

My motivations for taking it off are twofold: to make it easier to do oil changes, and hopefully to make it easier to get through deepish snow. With the latter, I'm not sure how much difference it will make, but think I'll leave it off for a while, through the next snowfall, and see how it goes.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Having the shield off is giving me a good chance to look it over: it's too bad Honda didn't put two hinge points in it, or move the single hinge point forward a bit (if that would work). As is they've made things a lot more complicated, and possibly dangerous, for do-it-yourselfers who don't typically have a full-blown lift.

Having the whole car up on jackstands always seems more dangerous than when two wheels remain on the ground. Also, I find raising one end to an extreme makes the jackstands more prone to kick out as you lower the rocker panels onto them.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

A floor jack and two stands is sufficient for changing oil+filter.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Using a floor jack and two stands will work if you take the front undercover completely, but that's 7 more fasteners (compared to just rotating down the hinged portion), in increasingly cramped quarters as you work front-to-rear of car.

If you have sufficient lift (proper service bay lift), you can rotate just the leading portion down and out of the way, at it's hinge point. This involves 2 regular bolts (easy) and 2 of the plastic fasteners (pita), But, rotation of just the hinged portion is near impossible with just the front end raised.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

To Green and Blue:

I found the floor jack was a pretty tight fit under the front end. It depends on the jack I guess. Just speculating, at least with my jack, lifting the back end first might make it impossible to get the jack under the front lifting point.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

I prefer taking off the entire front undercover. Doing so lets me make sure nothing is building a home inside there, and it serves as a very nice driveway shield should my aiming of the catch pan be off.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

I'm inclined to agree about taking the cover completely off, though it is a royal pain:

I experimented yesterday a bit with a higher lift jack I got on Boxing Day sale. I was able to get the car high enough off the slab, with 4 jackstands, to just be able to swing it down at the hinge with just the leading tabs hitting the floor. But:

I got increasingly nervous about the whole thing. Whenever either the front or back end is out-of-level the jackstands start wanting to kick out. And when the whole thing is up it just doesn't feel that stable, I think the extended jackstands were nearing their stability limit. One side of the car is next to a wall, and going down that side made me especially nervous.

I've had the whole car on jackstands before, but just for tire rotation, and I would lift it just enough to have the tires an inch or so clear of slab.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

If you're getting nervous like that, you need new stands. I have never felt the least bit uncomfortable having just the front propped up, the hand-brake set, and blocks behind the rear wheels. The jack points are roughly 12in (30cm) off the ground, which gives me plenty of space to work in.

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Took your advice, mmrmnhrm: picked up four 6-ton jackstands for $45CAN per pair. They have height range roughly 15"-24", and a much wider and more solid stance. Much more substantial and more reach compared to my 2-tons. Have also thought through the lifting strategy a bit more: when raising the whole car on jackstands, raise the front a bit, then the back a bit more, do it in 3~4 stages. It's when you try to make to dramatic a lift in one step that the jacks start shifting.

To have just enough room to swing the engine compartment shield down at the hinge point, you need to raise the car 14". The shield will still touch down a little before vertical, but it's just the localized tabs at it's leading edge, and the whole shield can flex a little when you push it back a little more.

I keep thinking this is a bit of effort, just to avoid taking out the extra fasteners and taking the shield completely off, but you do get better clearance, and it's handy if you want to swap/rotate tires or service brakes while you're at it.

And for cheap insurance: if you have a set of 4 extra wheels (either your snow or summer tires), put a couple under there on both sides, under the frame, not the wheels.

rotating the tires
 

I'm not sure I understand why one would want to put the car up on jack stands for oil maintenance.

Personally, I just drive the car up on ramps for the Oil change portion, and then when that is done, I put the car down and then I just lift the car from the A pillar jack point to get the front and rear tires off the ground and then rotate them.

I have been doing the way forever, and have never had a problem.

As for removing the bottom covers, I use a special tool that I got at the hardware store. It is a tack puller.

http://www.gjlenterprise.com/hidinstall/16.jpg

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Since you should rotate your tires during an oil change, just make it easy and put the car up on jack stands. I jack one side at the A-pillar position shown below, slide two jack stands in (front and back), and then the other side. Simple. Makes getting the underside panel off a lot easier.

I use a 4 ton low-profile Craftsman jack, and 3 ton jack stands. I can grab the A-pillar and shake the car and it won't budge. Solid.

http://www.sharenxs.com/thumbnails/n...90221-1139.jpg

http://www.sharenxs.com/thumbnails/n...90221-1141.jpg

Re: Oil Change Info!
 

Did my first oil/filter change (15%) level, after removing the bottom pan I decided to cut two holes for future changes. All went well except I didn't place the collection pan back far enough, The 0 weight oil shot out like a high pressure hose. Then after re-reading the manual finally got the reset to 100% I was done except I don't think my opening for the oil pan nut is large enough to handle the oil flow. will have to build a diverter for the next change. To messy to rebuild my closure plate for the oil plug hole.