Should I remove my AC?
 

I never use my air conditioner.

How much do you think it weighs?
Someone suggested it is about 100 lbs.

I'd never consider leaving 100 lbs of junk in my trunk all the time.
That would waste too much gas.

Do you imagine removing it could be in any way harmful to the car?
Would it void my warranty?
What if I had the dealer remove it?

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Would it be harmful? Probably not.
Will it void warranty? Almost certainly yes.
If the dealer did it? They'd look at you like you're nuts, but still likely yes.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

I wish more people were "nuts".

I think using less gas is good for a thousand reasons.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

How much time and money will it cost to have the A/C removed, and how much is the lack of A/C going to hurt the resale value later on? I wonder whether the potential fuel savings can come close to these other costs.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

I think saving gas is wonderful, but I also think it gets to a point where it is a little extreme.

If you are sitting in sweat in your car just to save a couple dollars, that is a little strange to me.

I like saving money but I also like to be comfortable and not melt. I can't stand to take a shower and then go sit in my car and sweat to death.

Besides, turning off the AC (in my opinon) doesnt save THAT much gas, especially if you are rolling down the windows because then that just causes drag on your car.

Here is a great link where they tested the 'tips' on what really saves gas...
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/106842/article.html#test4

If you are wanting to remove your AC, does that mean when others ride with you, you make them sweat too? ;)

-Morgan

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

I think the defroster uses the AC. Not sure how/if that would work if you removed the AC. I imagine you would have to re-work defrost to just use the fan. It would be less effective than using the AC, I bet.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

AC does help defog for sure. I wouldn't have a car without AC even if it rarely got used.

Same goes for 4wd on trucks that need to be on boat ramps or in snow. I rarely use 4wd but is sure is great when you need it!

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

I'm trying to remember if I ever use defrost here where I live in Souther California.
I don't think so.

I live and work near the beach.
The weather is very mild.

I park in a garage at home and at work.
I almost never use my car for other purposes.

I just can't see lugging around 100 pounds if it is needed once or twice a year, it that.

YMMV.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

It wouldn't hurt to ask the dealer. More than likely they will probably try to talk you out of it, and then I'm sure it voids your warrenty if you do it yourself. Let us know what the dealer says if you ask, I'm curious!

-Morgan

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Go ahead, yank it out. And, if you only drive solo, think of the additional weight reduction you would reap by removing the front and rear passenger seats.;)

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Haha, I was thinking about that too! I mean if you are willing to take out the AC, there are a few other things you can take out to reduce weight on the car!

Reminds me of the movie 'The Italian Job' where they take everything out of the Mini Cooper's to make them as light as possible.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Sell your car. Get a bike.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Actually, it is recommended that we give the AC a run at least once a week for at least 10 minutes. This will help keep the lines and seals lubricated, as well as to minimize refrigerant degradation and possible contamination. Repairing an AC system on our 06 HCH's can be a VERY expensive experience. :omg:


By looking at the Honda technical documentaion it appears that the Climate Control System is well integrated with the power delivery/management systems in the vehicle. I suspect it is technically possible to disable the AC altogether, but I doubt we'll be able to remove many components - thus offering very little weight savings - unless you remove the entire blower assembly as well. :confused:

For those components that can be removed, that would also mean a possible component remanufacturing or replacement if a best fit replacement cannot be found (sensors, belts, and possibly ECU and MICU re-programming).

One other thing that is often forgotten: The IMA battery derives its cooling from the passenger cabin air !!! :omg: Keeping the cabin temps in check will help ensure that the battery pack will operate in the typical temperature ranges the car was designed to operate in. Obviously, operation of the AC not only helps the passengers but also helps the power module behind the back seat !!!! Please stay cool and may your battery live long as well !!!:shade:


Cheers;


MSantos

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

For the record I drive alone 99% of the time.
When it is very hot I turn on the fan and take my shirt off.
It is fine.
Sure beats walking.

Removing seats would look bad.
Removing the AC would not.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

msantos makes a good point, the A/C is there for the batteries, also. To remove it may harm the batteries.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

I assume if I, the driver can stand the temp in the car the batteries can too.

A parked car in the sun (AC off of course) gets way way hotter than the 90 degrees that I tolerate driving without AC.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Kenny;

To each their own - of course !!

However, I am just trying to illustrate that the design attributes of the 06 HCH is not accidental. Yes, if you are in good health your body is very flexible and able to accommodate periods of higher temperatures - Mostly because our organic bodies regenerate and rebuild from damage far better that our typical "civilian use technology".

Sadly, as it is the case with most affordable technology nowadays, things are designed to operate within pre-established environmental thresholds. Call it designing with compromize.:zip: In the case of the NiMH batteries - when exposed to high heat over long periods of operation their life expectancy WILL be seriously reduced. This is not speculation !!

The power control module will even prevent the operation of the battery pack if a dangerous temperature limit is breached. Please note that the battery control module generates heat as well and that heat HAS TO BE dissipated. Since active air cooling is used to properly cool the 06HCH control module along with the battery - you will want to make sure the cabin air temperature is within an acceptable range. Remember, this applies only when the control module is in operation.

The other thing operating AC will do is control the amount of moisture in the cabin (which helps the battery control module, battry pack and all other electronic systems). In extreme heat, moisture can permeate through almost anything and then condensate causing connection degration and even corrosion. I am sure many prople would love to avoid that especially if they keep their vehicles as long as like to keep mine.

In the end, there's no denying that operating the battery pack at lower cabin temperatures only helps to prolong its life and reliability. Unlike humans I can assure you that the battery pack does NOT have regenerative abilities.


Cheers;


MSantos

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Honda refers to the enclosure that holds the batteries as the IPU (Intelligent Power Unit). It contains an internal air conditioning inverter and an internal cooling fan. What exactly is an air conditioning inverter? Does anybody know if this cools independently of the main air conditioner that cools the cabin?

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

So you feel driving with no AC when it is 90 degrees (and using only the fan instead) is damaging my battery?

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

What you are referring to may be the A/C compressor driver subsystem. This is a control facility that controls/powers the hybrid scroll air conditioning compressor located in the engine bay.

The power control module contains the following components:

IPU Module fan + air ducts
AC compressor driver
MCM module (IMA motor control module)
BCM module (battery control module)
DC to DC converter
Battery (NiMH pack) module

The entire power control module (IPU) is cooled by active air cooling (fan). The air is drawn from the vent in the cabin, cools the batteries first, then the BCM, DC-DC converter, MCM and at the very last cools the AC compressor driver.

The hot air is then exhausted out through the trunk to a vent just behind the rear bumper (right side of the vehicle).

Cheers;

MSantos

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

MSantos,
Thanks for the detailed explanation. It was helpful.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Kenny, nobody can conclusively say that you are damaging your batteries by allowing the cabin temps to reach 90 (32C). It may very well be that you'll be an exemplary statistic and never suffer from a NiMH cell failure.

However, there's also no denying that you are stressing them more than you would if the temps were a little lower. I should mention that the temps in the pack are MUCH higher than 90F (to avoid mentioning the actual scary numbers) ;).
The greatest enemy of a NiMH battery pack is heat - so the lower the cabin temps the greater the cooling efficiencies within the IMA power control module. Heat causes chemical erosion of the batteries and electro-migration of the surrounding electronics. These symptoms are typicaly irreversible so it is in our interest to ensure that we keep the cabin temps in check.



Cheers;


MSantos

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Interesting information. If I follow correctly the A/C Unit also cools off the Battery Pack - is that correct?

Today we drove from Phx 100 miles into Central AZ and noticed that the A/C began to weaken/not cool as efficiently and the rear right seat and seat back became very warm. Too warm to sit on. If the A/C is not working efficiently then the battery Pack is not being cooled properly - would that be a fair assessment. What else would cause the battery pack to heat up that much?

We had the car in for an A/C check and they said it was working normally. I have told them that after about 1 hour of driving up hill from Phoenix the A/C struggles and now I am noticing the warm seat/seatback.

TIA

Ed

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

So we don't know if and external temp of 90 deg F during operation is a damaging temp to batteries.
But we do know that cooler is better.

Hmm. . .

Perhaps I'll compromise and use my AC if outside temp hits 85 instead of 90 or so.

It is possible those Honda engineers assumed humans would never tolerate a 94 deg F external temp without turning on the AC when designing their systems.

All designs are compromises based on assumptions.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

W-o-w. I would love to see the dealer's face when you ask him to rip apart your AC to try to save 0.2MPG! Not to be rude, but this is a dumb idea for more than a handful of reasons...

In all seriousness, this idea is only logical if you have a reputable mechanic that 1) will buy the AC parts from you for ~$1000, and 2) will do the work for almost nothing. And you probably do not have either of those situations in your favor.

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

Ed, you are correct.

Under normal operating circumstances, the battery pack is indirectly cooled by the AC system (or whatever other means you can cool the passenger cabin with).

It makes sense that the back seat gets warm in extremely warm days. The temps in the power control module can go much, much higher than 200F. :embarass:


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: Should I remove my AC?
 

You are quite right my friend! Quite right. ;)


Cheers;

MSantos