first, i'd like to hear from a toyota manual or technician that the big battery in my prius is used to preheat the catalytic converter.

until then, i'm skeptical of the assertion that it does. open to education, though.

second, i've got some technical problems with the "how things work" pages that also lowers their credibility in my mind.

example: diesel-electric locomotives ( mentioned at http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm as "Most of the locomotives we see pulling trains are diesel-electric hybrids. " is, i believe, very misleading if taken literally.

it is my understanding that the diesel engines are connected to generators and that the generators are connected to the electric motors that drive the wheels. i have never heard anywhere that there are any battery-banks in the engines or associated cars that in any way have to do with actually propelling the locomotives or their loads, unlike my prius, for example, which is undeniably a hybrid and can be moved by the ICE OR the battery or a combination of both. the "diesel locomotives are hybrids" seems to me to be flying a bit high and loose with the definitions.

anyone out there drive a diesel loco?

help?

from the quote about the hybrid's battery heating the cat converter, it implies to me that "it could," not that it actually is used that way in any of the currently-sold commercial hybrids.

help?

thanks!

and hi, LB...
XOXOXO



(added edit ) i also am having a lot of trouble with the use of the concept "hybrid" at http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm in general. i think they're being sloppy.

can i define a hybrid as "a vehicle that can be propelled by either or several of two or more on-board energy sources"? thus our hybrid cars CAN be moved by either battery or ICE or combination, ok?

if you turn off the diesel in a railroad locomotive, it will, i believe, coast to a stop. there is no battery propulsion in the engineering of it.

similarly, diesel-electric trucks like the huge earth-movers, etc., have no energy storage if the diesel quits, so ditto on "grinds to a halt."

and finally, while diesel-electric submarines of WWII vintage could run on their diesels OR electric battery power, is that still true of today's nuke versions? or do they use the nuclear reactors to spin generators that spin electric motors to spin the propellers? if they can move on battery power, i could call them "true hybrids." if not, just combining electric propulsion motors with a generator doesn't make the loco or the truck any more "hybrid" than big earth-movers that are diesel-hydraulic!

no motor, no move = no hybrid.

words do have meanings and concepts can get cloudy if the wrong words are carelessly used....

imnsho...

tBaleno, please let me be more specific than 0-2 mph or 0-40 mph. i don't think those are part of the definition of "hybrid." recall that in the Prius, with which i'm most familiar, it isn't a hybrid because it can do 40mph in EV mode, it's a hybrid because it combines electric and ICE propulsion, separately or together, at all speeds! them motor-generators are busy at virtually all speeds. to me, that makes all the difference, and that both the battery AND ICE are used for propelling the car.
'k?

 

The Prius sells about 3 times as many units as the Escalade. The hybrid Escalade will be an even smaller niche. I would not be too hopeful about the hybrid Escalade outselling the Prius.

So, are going to buy an Escalade hybrid when they come out?

 

Well... If we're using EV propulsion as the definition of a hybrid, then the Civic, Insight, Accord, Vue, and Silverado aren't hybrids.

Of course, my unofficial definition of a hybrid is this:
-- Vehicle has electric motor and batteries that help push the car.
-- Fuel economy improves by at least 25%
-- Vehicles that meet #1 but not #2 are considered stop/start systems, not true hybrid systems.

Thus by my difinition, the Civic and Insight are well within the range of real hybrid, the Accord squeaks by, and Vue/Silverado are stop/start hybrids.

Whether the Cadillac Escalade actually gets 25% better fuel economy has yet to be seen since the vehicle doesn't exist yet. Given GM's timeliness on innovation, we'll see it around 2015.

 

I wasn't aware that was the case. Looks like I learned something. I was under the impression that the improved FE was due to the autostop.

Thanks

 

I know that the battery in my Mercury Mariner Hybrid does NOT pre-heat the catalytic converter. In fact, every time the Mariner/Escape Hybrid is started the ICE must run long enough to bring the CAT up to operating temperature.

As for "Hybrids" I believe that they should be defined as having some form of onboard energy storage (battery or the recently developed hydraulic system) and a method of employing that stored energy to propel the vehicle.....be that in EV mode or assisting the ICE. Both the Prius and its EV mode, and the Civic and its Motor Assist mode are true Hybrids. A vehicle that simply shuts down a few cylinders or shuts off at red lights is not a hybrid, as the term hybrid implies a mesh of two different things (ie gas and electric).

 

I wonder how much a stop/start system like Toyota's IISS actually costs? For example, if GM designed an inexpensive stop/start system that could be applied to the majority of their vehicles at a cost low enough that consumers wouldn't really notice, it would probably save a lot of gas in a collective sort of way.

 

3) Prius $20 something K.........Escalade $50 something K.......Escalade Hybrid $?$?$?$?$?

4) Capacity. Escalade will share 2-Mode system component capacity with Tahoe, Yukon, and possibly Dodge Durango and other not yet announced potential products.

Peace,

Martin

 

You will see the Chevy Tahoe 2-Mode



and the GMC Yukon 2-Mode around November 2007. The Escalade timing has not been publicly announced yet so I obviously won't be doing that here, but trust me it won't be long after these two, since they use the same hybrid systems. By the way.....one of the beauties of this system is you can still run the AC with the ICE off.

As for the 25% improvement is concerned, the biggest "threat" to the 25% is that the base / non-hybrid vehicle may improve enough in efficiency that overall raw number for the hybrid will improve, but potentially be a tick under 25% (like 24.something).

Peace,

Martin

 

Do you think the Silverado will get 2-mode, or do you think it will remain a FAS hybrid?

 

I have to contain my comments to discussion of publicly announced products. Feel free to read between the lines.

Peace,

Martin