Troll: feeding Msantos
Recently I was posting how to backup one's mileage database records when I ran into:
Originally Posted by Wiki
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Originally Posted by Msantos
Bob, if there is one thing I like about CleanMPG "ego" is certainly not the one that comes to mind. Many here at PC are also CleanMPG members and these fine folks are anything but ego driven. http://priuschat.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://priuschat.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://priuschat.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://priuschat.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif
If anything, they are the least single minded and some of the nicest and most generous people I've had the pleasure to deal with. http://images.fanpop.com/images/imag...42_800_441.jpg
Originally Posted by Msantos
Frankly, if you are an honest person,
Originally Posted by Msantos
. . . then you absolutely need to disclose something important to the PriusChat community:
Originally Posted by Msantos
That you have a long standing disdain and contempt for CleanMPG, its mission and accomplishments. That much is evident to many of us.
Originally Posted by Msantos
Of course their practices have a whole lot to do with vehicle performance baselines.
Originally Posted by Msantos
If fact, these practices account for the proverbial missing half that every true career engineer knows and appreciates. If that was not the case then why even have a hybrid specific human interface in the form of information displays? Decorative stuff added to justify the hybrid premium?? And if these are built into the cars then what problem do you have when some in the community work on maximizing the man-machine combination?
Originally Posted by Msantos
That, heavily promoting hybrids and also extending the concept to the other 95% of the driving public regardless of what they drive, is what CleanMPG is all about.
Originally Posted by Msantos
Also hard to deny, is that you and other moderators actively hunted and purged GH out of people who were even remotely sympathetic to CleanMPG's mission. Many excuses were given for deleting posts and suppressing community oriented information but after all was said and done, GH is now where you folks wanted it to be all along. Quite an accomplishment indeed.
Originally Posted by Msantos
I can only hope Danny will recognize and reject the kind of fundamental and narrow minded mediocrity that sank GH, to infect PriusChat. http://priuschat.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif Again from Wiki:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. . . .
Originally Posted by Msantos
In fact, I appreciate the apparent efforts at PriusChat to accommodate hypermiling as yet another viable facet of hybrid ownership enjoyment.
. . . Whether the suggestion is genuine or simply a means to sell more scangauges, It is definitely not without universal benefits for all PC members who care. The PriusChat folks are of course free to pursue their business model and I wish them well.
Originally Posted by Msantos
Anyway, like others have stated, if PriusChat is to ever have a good mileage database then CleanMPG is a good template to start with. http://priuschat.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
Bob Wilson |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Bob, did ANY of this happen over here at GreenHybrid?
If not, why post this rant here? |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Hi Steve,
Originally Posted by gumby
(Post 199520)
Bob, did ANY of this happen over here at GreenHybrid?
If not, why post this rant here? My first response was to send a note to the moderators citing his attack on my honesty. Ordinarily a personal attack is enough to get the posting moved or quieted down. But that didn't happen. So we had a damaged thread terminated in the rantings of a sociopath. So I reposted my original posting in that thread with the troll's opinion about CleanMPG to get the thread back on subject. A moderator came in later and trimmed out redundant text, which I agree with. Regardless, the thread returned to the original subject and the troll lost. BTW, I did consider posting my reply in the equivalent to "Anything goes" called "Freds House of Pancakes." But you know, the troll's attack was not just on me but also the civility of the other forum. There was no reason to 'trash' another site's relative peace for a quarrel that he has with me or the GreenHybrid team. I then posted my detailed response here, in "Anything goes." One thing I know for sure is the troll would rather walk on hot coals than come back to GreenHybrid.com. His personal animus and lack of self discipline knows no bounds. Yet somehow, I suspect he has managed to read this posting anyway. Perfect revenge for getting me to look again at the CleanMPG "database" after a year and a half. I've had to deal with SPAMmers, trolls and telemarketers (on Friday a cell phone call for one of those bogus car warranty scams.) But I've come to realize the only thing that works is to stand up to them in a way the forces them in a corner they don't want to be in. A chess player, I happen to have some skills in that department. After all, it is better to give an ulcer than receive and sometimes a little fun. <grins> Will the trolls follow me back here? I doubt it but you never know. But frankly I hope they 'get a clue by four.' I hope they will just leave me and my friends alone ... but sociopaths seldom work that way. Bob Wilson |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Few people bother to discuss Honda Civic, unless they're modding/racer and/or young. Much less the hybrid version. It's a reliable and efficient car that doesn't need all the hand-holding. He kept discussion traffic artificially high and now I know why.
In the absence of testing and sampling from others, "Tarabell"'s essay (hosted you-know-where) was treated like the fricken' Bible, and criticism of the safety of "hypermiling" was disregarded. Your car isn't performing like it should? Go read "Tarabell"'s essay. That's the first thing you must do . . . |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
I'd started to bemoan Msantos but you know, it quickly becomes a waste of time. My real interest is a good, total cost of ownership database and that remains, after three years, quite elusive.
There is a model for a good database, one that would certainly attract my participation:Regardless of the vehicle, they follow this pattern: What is maddening is finding parts of the database at different web sites but they are not integrated. For example, consumer product safety has user reported maintenance problems; the EPA has a mileage database and; Ebay provides daily purchase and sales prices. It is also maddening that Consumer Reports has internal processes to track vehicle life-cycle costs but they haven't opened it up to their members. They even send out an annual membership survey but have yet to step over the line from paper to web and make it a service, even for fee, to their members. <grumble grumble grumble> Well I'm off to work. Chat at you later. Bob Wilson |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
(Post 199416)
Recently I was posting how to backup one's mileage database records when I ran into:
Now one of the golden rules is "don't feed the troll" and that remains the case today. But sometimes it is cathartic to reply in kind but not in someone else's house. For this, the "Anything goes" forum will do: No, it is just you and your trollish behavior. It reminds of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail:" http://images.fanpop.com/images/imag...42_800_441.jpg Really? Gosh darn, I am shocked, shocked to hear that there is any doubt from such an example and representative of these "fine folks" as yourself. The practice of a troll is to hijack a thread, to drive it away from the original subject and change it into a quarrel ... a public quarrel if possible. Well here is a nice place for a fine, multiple course meal, enjoy. But trolling is theft by any other name and not what we associate with "fine folks" such as yourself. Since it is so self-evident, you simply had to practice a troll's trick and try to hijack a thread by this nonsense. But since I'm serving a multiple course meal for the troll, let's start with the Wiki definition of a cult:
In this all I have to do is point my "lying eyes" on the CleanMPG mileage database. My 'lying eyes' see no baseline performance in CleanMPG but just a straight list of individual records tagged with a "Status" titles such as:
A typical troll uses insults, "true career engineer," as well as false choices. It is a shame because it means there is little or no chance of a civil dialog. When and if you are ever able to pose something we can discuss, I look forward to the dialog. Perhaps you might find something in the Prius FAQ? So the staff and moderators at CleanMPG own their own hybrids or do some of them just borrow or rent them for driving stunts? Consistency means walking the walk and putting vehicle ownership money where their mouth is. But again, our 'lying eyes' notice that your "fine folks" mileage database includes non-hybrids. That is promoting hybrids? Deny, heck I'm quite happy about the CleanMPG crowd leaving GreenHybrid instead of abusing our forums to troll for members. CleanMPG has always been welcome to be like any other contributing member and bring value to GreenHybrid. But SPAM is when someone, anyone, attempts to sell or promote their business in user forums without bringing value. An internet forum is not a suicide pact and abusers should find other playgrounds. Ironically we both agree that "fundamental and narrow minded mediocrity" may someday need to be banned. But it would be easier if you would just stop logging in. Again from Wiki: This is why I've replied here. We can discuss your trollish behavior without disrupting other groups. The other alternative was to take it to "Fred's House of Pancakes" but you know, I don't troll ... but don't let my ethics and respect for other forums impede your efforts. <GRINS> What? What? You mean they may not be selling advertising space? I'm shocked! <grins> The PriusChat folks are of course free to pursue their business model and I wish them well. Selecting a mileage database is a question of requirements, the goals and objectives. The requirements should dictate the design and implementation. But that doesn't excuse your trollish behavior. Bob Wilson I should note that I drive the same way(for maximum safe mileage) despite whatever title I may be awarded/assigned. |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Originally Posted by diamondlarry
(Post 199594)
I suppose this response will get me severely punished but, if it does, then so be it. The preceding post seems to be a version of exactly what you are denouncing elsewhere on other forums.:(
Originally Posted by diamondlarry
(Post 199594)
Please don't take this as me taking sides on whether or not your opinion is justified because that is not my intent in any way. My point is that posts like that make it difficult to distinguish between the two points. I hope I still get to hang around and learn.
Had Msantos stated his concern in "Fred's House of Pancakes," again, no problem. The problem was interrupting a technical answer and evaluation of four separate databases. Even the databases could have been discussed dispassionately and with attention to facts and data and there would have been no problem. But that was neither the tone nor the effect of his post.
Originally Posted by diamondlarry
(Post 199594)
I should note that I drive the same way(for maximum safe mileage) despite whatever title I may be awarded/assigned.
More Governors Endorse EcoDrivingUSA™ Washington, DC – The EcoDriving movement continues to grow, as more governors have announced support for this national initiative to promote green driving. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-CA), Governor Bill Ritter (D-CO), the Environmental Defense Fund and the Auto Alliance launched the EcoDrivingUSA™ program at a news conference in 2008. Do you still want an 88C thermostat? Ken mentioned your handle so I've picked up his inventory for state-side sales. Bob Wilson |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
I found the post at priuschat and it looks like you tried to badmouth the cleanmpg dudes with your post and he called you out
Anyways I am not a member at their site cause they are a bit too much for me but from his greenhybrid posting he doesnt look trolly or crazy. he's writes very nice and helpful and his advice and tarabell's helped me double my mileage to. kinda hard to believe hes a troll. I guess its ok for you to say he is if you hate him. kinda makes sense anyways. |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Hi Kevin,
Originally Posted by KevinsTop
(Post 199611)
I found the post at priuschat and it looks like you tried to badmouth the cleanmpg dudes with your post and he called you out
. . . A moderator at GreenHybrid, I'm basicly there to 'keep the lights on.' Sad to say, I'm not part of the team that handles the mileage database. However, over time I have looked at alternatives and they are slim:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
Originally Posted by KevinsTop
(Post 199611)
. . . Anyways I am not a member at their site cause they are a bit too much for me but from his greenhybrid posting he doesnt look trolly or crazy.
Originally Posted by KevinsTop
(Post 199611)
. . . he's writes very nice and helpful and his advice and tarabell's helped me double my mileage to.
Originally Posted by KevinsTop
(Post 199611)
. . . kinda hard to believe hes a troll. I guess its ok for you to say he is if you hate him. kinda makes sense anyways.
As for "hate," Msantos is not a SPAMer and hasn't been hanging around trying to sell something in our forums. Disappointed is more accurate but we don't need to go beyond this incident. Bob Wilson |
Re: Troll: feeding Msantos
Why did you start this post? Get a grip!!! H:embarass:
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