Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Hello

We have about 70,000 miles on our TCH now and it has been the PERFECT car! We have NOT had ONE problem with it. Yesterday, we just returned from a 800 mile trip from Denver to Durango and back and got 40.2 miles per gallon in mountain driving.

I was curious about the expected Hybrid Battery life for the Toyota Camry Hybrid battery. How many mile can we get out of the battery? Do we have any first had experience here with it? What does it cost to replace the battery?

I am not sure this is something to be concerned with. The battery might last the life of the car.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks a Bunch!

Bill

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

No one has a definitive answer, but a few years ago there were articles about Prius taxis in Toronto (??) that hit >200,000 miles. Toyota bought them back (exchanged new ones) so they could study the longevity. I think it's safe to say...they'll last a long time. In addition (not an engineer), I believe the battery is a series of cells, so if a few cells fail (or when they do), one might be able to replace the bad ones.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Hi Haroldo

Thanks for the post! I wonder what is the highest milage TCH in this group? They might know more. We plan to keep the car for the long term and we are getting close to paying it off now. I think this is a good question.

Bill

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

153,000 miles so far on my 2007 TCH (bought July 2006), seems to be running great with no problems, battery included.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I was talking to the toyota tech here in town a few years ago. I stopped in to buy some oem oil filters. I asked a similar question about the traction battery's life. He said he had two Prius that he had to replace the traction battery's due to a few weak cells. One Prius had 245,000 and the other at 248,000 miles. I had to ask how much did the new traction battery cost. His reply was $1500. I forgot to ask about labor or if the TCH battery might cost a little more as its probably some larger.

I remember the first few years the first Prius came out. This same tech told me then they used plug-in cell combinations to make up the traction battery. That is any of the cells inside the 6 cell pack went out, then it would be rather cheap to replace.

Toyota abandoned that idea as the plug in sockets could not handle the maximum amps the EV motor could pull at full throttle. Toyota then went to a spot weld type connection between all the cells and were then able to put out full amps on a full charge.

No doubt with so many hybrids now on the roads the traction batteries prices should keep falling. Panasonic made all the traction batteries till the 2012's came out. Those I understand are made by Toyota here in the United States. I did read the new 2012 traction battery pack is smaller and lighter, but puts out more amps than the earlier models.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

How do you know if your battery is doing well? Does the dealer or garages have something that can test the battery? I'll be honest, I'd have no way of knowing if my battery was operating at 95% of peak efficiency or at 10%.
I know the car drives, but that's about it.
How do you check the health of the battery?

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Your question is not directed to me but I may have the answer. Each traction battery has a small chip included that's like a tiny computer-scanner. It continually scans each of the cells to report a ok or fail signal. If it sees any single cell below a minimum voltage, it will report it to the mfd readout.

Yes, each toyota dealer has a traction battery tester. It can charge and discharge the battery for any problems.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Isn't traction battery under 150k mile warranty at least in some states like CA and NY?
And even if it fails after warranty, it's probably similar in price to rebuilding automatic transmission and I never owned a car that survived much past 100k-150k before total transmission failure from Chevy and Nissan to Honda and that's the only type of major failure I've ever had.
So I just hope PSD lasts "forever", since there is really not much there to fail except for short in windings and bearing failure and if that was the case, then seriously I rather change traction battery than transmission in all other cars: for starters I could see replacing battery myself, I don't have a lift to even begin to think about replacing transmission on my own.
Also, I could actually see myself finding and replacing just the faulty cells, instead of the whole pack.
BTW from Prius tests it seems the aging of the battery pack and subsequent lowering pack capacity doesn't affect MPG that much, until total failure.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

thanks, good answer!

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Just because you hear some one live to 100 years does not mean that you should expect to live that long. The life expectancy of hybrid car batteries is about 125K miles, told by a dealer service manager.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

As few Camry hybrids, if any, amongst the commercially sold cars in the US have hit that level, I wonder how he knows that. Not trying to be disagreeable, but the laboratory testing Toyota did with 100 or 200 cars before launching the Camry pales in comparison to the real life experience of the two hundred thousand on the road in every day use. There's no way even Toyota engineers will know how long they'll last, theory aside, only real life results matter.
The car was released in 2006, if the average driver drives 15,000 miles a year, this dealer service manager, in all likelihood, never saw a Camry hit 125,000 miles yet.
While I understand how they come up with that figure, I believe real life experience in the Prius (older car) has many passing the 200M (in my business, M= thousand and K= kilometer, as in "I'm running a 10K, please sponsor me").

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Pete4 hit the nail on the head with this one - the life expectancy is 150k++.

In California and about 13 other states the batteries have a 10 year / 150,000 mile warranty.

If the average lifetime isn't beyond 150k, Toyota will be paying out BIG $$ on warranty claims. Unlike Honda, Toyota seems to have done their homework on their batteries.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

SO these claim are being paid because California has longer warrantee of 100K mikes? Or are the batteries not holding up to 100K?

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I'm not a lawyer and haven't read the terms of the warranty, but is it possible the warranty is similar to tire warranty, which is different from the extended warranty that people buy?
With tires that are warranted to 50,000 miles, for example, if they fail, owner is warranted proportionally to the life of the tire, so, if the tire fails at 25,000 miles, owner gets half the value paid towards the replacement, if it fails at 45,000, owner gets 10% paid, etc.
I can't believe that a manufacturer will set themselves up for a situation where they're on the hook for the full cost of a major expenditure without this proportionality feature. If a battery fails after 5000 miles or another fails at 99,999 miles their responsibility should be different.
Battery warranties, like all other OEM warranties are marketing ploys. If they know a product has an expected lifespan of 10 years, or more, its no "skin off their nose" to throw in a six year warranty. more people will buy a car if the warranty period is longer, so it's usually a safe, calculated, gamble to create a lengthy "sounding" period. In the case of hybrids, which are effectively a new concept, the consumer needed reassurance that the product will last a long time.
As such, I'd be willing to bet the expected life of the battery is easily 150m miles, if not longer, thus the 8 year/100m warranty and fewer than a handful of owners' batteries will fail before that period. Further, I'll bet that if someone reads the warranty, they'll probably find some clause that compares the attained mileage to the warranty to determine the actual value received on failure. Again, I can't imagine they'll throw you a $1,000+ repair if the battery fails 2 miles or one week before the end of your period. Not positive on this...but has anyone read the terms?

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I can find talk about the million mile prius, but not it's traction battery. Same battery as the '07 Camry TCH other than it's larger due to the need for more amps vs the heavier car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAIGj4i4s2Q

from PriusChat

Just to let u know, I called Toyota on 3 separate occasions.

1st when I had about 375000, they said they was not interested.

2nd when I broke the undisputed record of 435000 on original batteries.

3rd was around 460000 I believe, again they were not interested.

So I did what I thought was best for me. The Prius V exceeded my expectations, and I am glad I bought it. Same gas mileage and bigger space.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

My Honda Civic Hybrid probably has a similar pack as yours and has over 220,000 miles without any issue at all.

CVT slippage yes. Battery problems no.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I have 174,600 miles on my '07 TCH. Purchased in Oct. '06.

I have noticed recently that the engine runs in drive thru lanes more than it used too, after brisk acceleration the engine remains at an elevated rpm for 30 seconds after I release the gas pedal.

Also the battery level as reported on the navigation screen seems to fluctuate up and down from max to min more than it used to.

I am wondering if my battery is on it's last leg?

Not sure if I want to dump the car now while it works, or just keep it until it fails. I have not seen any cheap battery replacement options. I might even break open the pack myself upon failure and try to rebuild it.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I think I would just trade it in. No one will know the difference. GOOD LUCK on that!

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Check to see if your ECO is shown to be on in the center or your AC/Heat readout. If not, press it on using the button just to the right of you gas-door button. I found it's best to keep your AC/Heat by using the temp numbers. If you choose Hi or Lo then it will kick off the ECO setting.

The ECO mode helps your engine to shut off at low speeds and especially when your sitting at a red light.

The elevated rpm after accelerations is the fuel, sounds like the butterfly valve in the throttle body is sticking. Sound good but I don't know if the '07 TCH even has one. Google should know.. You might pull the air intake tube off the metal intake and look inside. I had a '94 Corolla that stuck and I saw a butterfly operated by a servo. I used a little carb cleaner to clean out any dark deposits and that fixed the sticking problem. Ask youtube you may learn more and find a better cleaner than I used.

I would not attempt messing inside the 285 dc volt traction battery. The cells are in 7 volt packs and each cell is non-standard size between a C and D which were used too. If you have a single bad cell within the pack the battery cell scanner (mounted to the pack) notifies the ECU and you will be alerted by your MFD readout. Not sure if it would say traction battery low or simply giving you a trouble number which pack reads low. You could look for a replacement used battery pack from a salvage yard.

With that many miles I would be toying the idea of buying a new '12 TCH. Lots of advantages with the new one and seems easier to get higher mpg from.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

If you know a good tech in your area with a factory or Snap-on scanner (Solus, Verus, Verdict or Modis), they should be able to scan your pack, the modules within, temps, amps and pretty much anything else you might need to know. When I get home tomorrow night, I'll put the Modis on mine and let you know what it can get.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

My car did the same thing summer and worse yet I had battery pack error message thats the battery was dead and to pull over immediately. I also noticed my gas mileage had dropped down to low 30's high 20's.

Now with the cooled weather my mileage has picked up again to the mid 30's but I have a strong feeling once the warmer weather comes around next spring I'll need a new battery.

Right now I'm at 138K miles.

Replace your spark plugs, I just did mine at 135K and the engine turning is mch smoother.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I read somewhere you can sometimes find traction batteries on Ebay for around $500. Some salvage yards the larger ones have a method of communicating with other large yards to find a particular part. Salvage yard traction batteries can be sold as low at $350. It's been a few years I read this so who knows what they charge today.

Here is the $1875 rebuild the battery pack place. I have no idea of their quality other than you do get 18 month unlimited guarantee with each pack..

http://www.re-involt.com/Prius_Battery-.html

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I just had to replace the hybrid battery in my 2007 TCH, which I have owned since June 2006. "Check Hybrid System" light came on and hybrid battery tested out bad. But because I had 97,000 miles, Toyota replaced it at no charge (whew, just made it under the 100,000 mile warranty). The bad news was they kept it 9 days because there were no spares on the island of Oahu and they had to ship one in. If this had happened in 5,000 miles I would have had to pay for everything!

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I take it they did not prorate the replacement cost, as is common with a conventional 12 volt battery?

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

Ron,

Everywhere except the California CARB states have a 100,000 mile warranty. The CARB states go to 150,000 miles. They will replace this battery under warranty due to the Camry being a partial zero emissions vehicle. By federal law, the warranty on those parts must be at least 100,000 miles free of charge.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

There are two main external battery factors that determine battery life in an Hybrid car.

It is the amount of stops and starts - not a mileage issue as some would say.
The other factor is temperature- hotter the climate the shorter the battery life.
Colder the climate - longer the battery life but battery output can be reduced.

This is from an Engineer that deals with batteries of all types.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

I live in the hot desert part of southern New Mexico. I talked to the local toyota tech when I bought the new '07 TCH. My first question was about the traction battery life. He told me about two older Prius here in town. One was a 2000 and the other a 2001 model. Their traction batteries went out around 245,000 miles. He said, the older one had the small plug-in replaceable 7.5 volt battery packs. The packs cost was only $150 and he was on his way after using the charger. The '01 had the non-removable packs. The traction battery had to be replaced which cost $1500 plus labor.

That gave me confidence when he said that about me buying the '07 Camry. All toyota's traction batteries were manufactured by Panasonic up to 2011. I read starting with the 2012 TCH that the traction battery had a improved design and was built at a new Toyota plant here in America. The new design is somewhat smaller, provides more amps and runs cooler than the earlier batteries.

Re: Expected Hybrid Battery Life?
 

200,000 miles?

Andrew Grant, a taxi driver in Vancouver, ran his 1st gen 2004 Prius 1,500,000 km, which is 932,000 miles, on the original battery.

I'd say that's "life of the car", and then some.

Cheers!

Dan