? for Navigation Owners
#11
01-05-2007, 07:56 PM
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 187
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
[quote=Sooty;105361]Have you heard anything more from Toyota Canada.
I just got back from a meeting with my Toyota dealer here in Calgary regarding the dealer installed NAV and the fact that I feel Toyota has misrepresented it here in Canada. No-one said in any way prior to the sale that the NAV was not the same as the one that comes from the factory.
They fully agreed with me and said that they were not at all happy with the way Toyota Canada was handling this issue. Apparently the NAV for the Camry Hybrid has exactly the same part number as the NAV for the Camry XLE so no "Trip info or Energy Screen".
Unfortunately the bottom line appears to be we are stuck with what we have they are unlikely to change it.
I am also curious as to what you manual is like? The one that came with my NAV system is actually one for a Lexus it not even for a Camry of any kind. I'm told even though the hardware itself is different all the touch screens and NAV functions are the same so this is what you get like it or lump it.[/quote]
Yes I too have what appears to be Lexus navigation manual with a Toyota cover and a disclaimer pasted in on page 2. Also the main Toyota Hybrid Owners Manual spells out on pages 2-5 the extra trip information you get if you have the navigation system installed. There is no mention the Canadian market cars do not get this information.
However not only I am I unhappy that I was misled by the model of navigation unit I was getting, i.e. it does not include the hybrid trip information, I also find the performance of the navigation system very unreliable in and around the Toronto area. For example there are several times when you're told to turn left to reach a certain destination and you should be turning right! Also on one of the main north-south streets in Toronto you are instructed to exit to the highway entrance on the left when the highway entrance is on the right!
I have been discussing these problems with my dealers service department and also Denso, Canada located in Mississauga Ontario. My Denso contract agrees they have a problem and is happy to take note of all the errors and I am told he will pass them on to Denso in the US who will be updating the database for inclusion in this years annual DVD release. As far as I can gather I would in all probability have to buy the new disk for several hundred dollars!
I am fairly familiar with auto GPS systems. I have a small handheld Milo GPS PDA with a 1 MB SD card that has 2 software databases installed (Milo & TomTom) both cover all of the US and Canada. This small unit is far more accurate, has more POI's and also streets in out-of-town locations than the much newer Toyota Denso unit has!
To cut a long story short I am now negotiating with Toyota to get the navigation unit removed and the original radio/CD player reinstalled, and of course get my money back. My dealer still has the original radio that he removed when he installed the navigation system.
At the moment I'm waiting to hear back from Toyota. They have told me that their parts distribution centre does not want the navigation unit back because it is a used component. The dealer does not want to refund any money out of his own pocket so I have been told by Toyota they are trying to get their warranty department to handle the problem!
I find it hard to understand how Toyota can produce such a great car and offer such an inferior navigation system! Please don't give up, I'm sure Toyota are getting many complaints not only from Toyota but also Lexus owners that use the same system.
How do others find the accuracy and street database in your area?
I just got back from a meeting with my Toyota dealer here in Calgary regarding the dealer installed NAV and the fact that I feel Toyota has misrepresented it here in Canada. No-one said in any way prior to the sale that the NAV was not the same as the one that comes from the factory.
They fully agreed with me and said that they were not at all happy with the way Toyota Canada was handling this issue. Apparently the NAV for the Camry Hybrid has exactly the same part number as the NAV for the Camry XLE so no "Trip info or Energy Screen".
Unfortunately the bottom line appears to be we are stuck with what we have they are unlikely to change it.
I am also curious as to what you manual is like? The one that came with my NAV system is actually one for a Lexus it not even for a Camry of any kind. I'm told even though the hardware itself is different all the touch screens and NAV functions are the same so this is what you get like it or lump it.
[/quote]Yes I too have what appears to be Lexus navigation manual with a Toyota cover and a disclaimer pasted in on page 2. Also the main Toyota Hybrid Owners Manual spells out on pages 2-5 the extra trip information you get if you have the navigation system installed. There is no mention the Canadian market cars do not get this information.
However not only I am I unhappy that I was misled by the model of navigation unit I was getting, i.e. it does not include the hybrid trip information, I also find the performance of the navigation system very unreliable in and around the Toronto area. For example there are several times when you're told to turn left to reach a certain destination and you should be turning right! Also on one of the main north-south streets in Toronto you are instructed to exit to the highway entrance on the left when the highway entrance is on the right!
I have been discussing these problems with my dealers service department and also Denso, Canada located in Mississauga Ontario. My Denso contract agrees they have a problem and is happy to take note of all the errors and I am told he will pass them on to Denso in the US who will be updating the database for inclusion in this years annual DVD release. As far as I can gather I would in all probability have to buy the new disk for several hundred dollars!
I am fairly familiar with auto GPS systems. I have a small handheld Milo GPS PDA with a 1 MB SD card that has 2 software databases installed (Milo & TomTom) both cover all of the US and Canada. This small unit is far more accurate, has more POI's and also streets in out-of-town locations than the much newer Toyota Denso unit has!
To cut a long story short I am now negotiating with Toyota to get the navigation unit removed and the original radio/CD player reinstalled, and of course get my money back. My dealer still has the original radio that he removed when he installed the navigation system.
At the moment I'm waiting to hear back from Toyota. They have told me that their parts distribution centre does not want the navigation unit back because it is a used component. The dealer does not want to refund any money out of his own pocket so I have been told by Toyota they are trying to get their warranty department to handle the problem!
I find it hard to understand how Toyota can produce such a great car and offer such an inferior navigation system! Please don't give up, I'm sure Toyota are getting many complaints not only from Toyota but also Lexus owners that use the same system.
How do others find the accuracy and street database in your area?
#12
01-05-2007, 09:24 PM
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
I have the Version 5.1 mapping DVD and find it to be quite a bit out of date. Also I've found that one park in downtown Calgary to be on the wrong side of the street according to the NAV system.
The other day we did a short trip south of town and at one point it wanted me to turn left which would have put me in a field.
On little trips around Calgary it consistently picks routes that are either further or much slower than ones I would myself pick even though I ask for either the shortest or fastest route. I'm not at all impressed with the performance but it would get you where ever you wanted to go in a strange city and you most likely wouldn't know it was not the most efficient way to get there.
For what I paid for the system I am very much not impressed.
Oh by the way my dealer gave me my old radio when I took delivery of the car, I still have it sitting on the bench out in the garage.
The other day we did a short trip south of town and at one point it wanted me to turn left which would have put me in a field.
On little trips around Calgary it consistently picks routes that are either further or much slower than ones I would myself pick even though I ask for either the shortest or fastest route. I'm not at all impressed with the performance but it would get you where ever you wanted to go in a strange city and you most likely wouldn't know it was not the most efficient way to get there.
For what I paid for the system I am very much not impressed.
Oh by the way my dealer gave me my old radio when I took delivery of the car, I still have it sitting on the bench out in the garage.
#14
01-06-2007, 11:34 AM
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
Paulgw - Your experience reminds me of my own experience when I bought my 1993 Camry LE V6 in Waterloo, ON and had the 6-disc in-trunk CD changer fitted as a dealer-installed option (C$750 if I recall correctly). It was a Toyota-branded unit made by Panasonic, as is the radio in the non-Nav TCH, I believe. I found that it locked up solid whenever one switched it off when a CD was displaying a negative between-track time of precisely 11 seconds - something that's quite common on classical CDs, in order to provide a long silence between different works. The only way to get it working again was to eject and re-insert the 6-disc cassette in the trunk. Toyota's Customer Care Department (or whatever they call it now) seems to view its job as being one of fobbing off customers back to the dealers, even if the dealer doesn't know what to do. This attitude seems not to have changed. (If you've read "1984" or "Brave New World," you'll understand the irony in the Department's title.) I even contacted Panasonic, who confirmed the problem, and said that Japan would fix it in the next issue, but that didn't help me! In the end, my dealer refunded out of his own pocket one-half of my purchase price for the CD changer to settle my complaint. Toyota claimed no responsibility whatsoever for this Toyota-branded item.
It seems that things have not changed. I find it incredible that this prominent company, which makes such great products, treats its customers with such arrogance and disdain. Paulgw, you seem to have encountered this same attitude. I'm sorry! [What am I doing apologizing for Toyota?]
Stan
It seems that things have not changed. I find it incredible that this prominent company, which makes such great products, treats its customers with such arrogance and disdain. Paulgw, you seem to have encountered this same attitude. I'm sorry! [What am I doing apologizing for Toyota?]
Stan
#15
01-06-2007, 08:16 PM
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 187
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
[quote=..............Toyota's Customer Care Department (or whatever they call it now) seems to view its job as being one of fobbing off customers back to the dealers, even if the dealer doesn't know what to do. .......It seems that things have not changed. .........
Stan[/quote]
You are right on the money with the above comment, that is exactly how Toyota's customer care department handles these problems from my experience. And of course the dealer doesn't have much incentive to worry about my complaints or refund money on the navigation system he has already sold. Anyway I hope to get a response this coming week as to what Toyota is willing to do regarding taking back the navigation system. Will keep you posted.
Stan[/quote]
You are right on the money with the above comment, that is exactly how Toyota's customer care department handles these problems from my experience. And of course the dealer doesn't have much incentive to worry about my complaints or refund money on the navigation system he has already sold. Anyway I hope to get a response this coming week as to what Toyota is willing to do regarding taking back the navigation system. Will keep you posted.
Last edited by Paulgw; 01-06-2007 at 08:19 PM.
#16
01-06-2007, 08:52 PM
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
I'm in the same boat as all the other Canadians here. I got the Nav installed, and no energy screen. I actually bought it for the energy screen, don't care that much about Nav. Worse, my dealer told me it would work as I specifically asked. Apparently they "assumed" because it works when you put it in a Highlander, it would work in the Camry.
The kit to do the install does not connect the CAN wires between the Nav and the Hybrid ECU required for the energy screen to work. That said, it would "appear" based on other people's experience, that even if you were to connect these, the energy screen would not appear.
Research continues, but I may try to get the dealer to take my unit back, then try to get the correct one.
Later!
Dang
The kit to do the install does not connect the CAN wires between the Nav and the Hybrid ECU required for the energy screen to work. That said, it would "appear" based on other people's experience, that even if you were to connect these, the energy screen would not appear.
Research continues, but I may try to get the dealer to take my unit back, then try to get the correct one.
Later!
Dang
#17
01-06-2007, 09:14 PM
A big favour to ask of our American friends.....
Gang...
Can someone with a Hybrid and a Nav that has the energy screen try a test for me. This won't do anything to your nav, so don't worry. This will help us Canadians figure out what Toyota is doing.
Go into the diagnostic menu.
To do this, press the power button so it's on. (acc is fine, you don't have to start it.)
Hold the INFO button on the Nav, then turn the headlights on and off three times. (actually, parking lights are fine.)
You should now be in the diagnostic menu.
"Somewhere" in there is a CAN connection check. I think it may be under the "Navigation Check" menu item, but not sure. The manual is really bad on this.
Try pressing the "Menu" button on the touch screen to get to the home screen, then press the "Display Check" on the screen, then press the "Vehicle Signal Check" button on screen. That should show things like battery voltage, park brake on, speed, etc., but somewhere near there is a CAN check. If it's not in this menu, it should be in there somewhere. If you find this menu, if you can let me know how you got there.
What I'm looking for is a screen that says "CAN Connection check", and will probably say CAN Connection OK. This screen does not exist in my unit, and I think is the key for the energy screen.
One last check while you are in there. Get back to the home menu. Press the "Navigation Check" button on the touch screen, then press the "Parts Information" button on the touch screen. Let me know what numbers are in there.
I think the first part number is the firmware, and the second is the disk.
Mine is:
NAVI Information
DENSO
1650
Disk Information
DENSO
V06.05.11
I suspect the first number might be different in the units for hybrids. The second may be different depending what version of disk you have.
To get out of the diagnostic menu, simply hold your DISP button for about 3 seconds and you'll be back to normal.
Thanks in advance!!!!!!!
It will really help narrow this down.
Dan
Can someone with a Hybrid and a Nav that has the energy screen try a test for me. This won't do anything to your nav, so don't worry. This will help us Canadians figure out what Toyota is doing.
Go into the diagnostic menu.
To do this, press the power button so it's on. (acc is fine, you don't have to start it.)
Hold the INFO button on the Nav, then turn the headlights on and off three times. (actually, parking lights are fine.)
You should now be in the diagnostic menu.
"Somewhere" in there is a CAN connection check. I think it may be under the "Navigation Check" menu item, but not sure. The manual is really bad on this.
Try pressing the "Menu" button on the touch screen to get to the home screen, then press the "Display Check" on the screen, then press the "Vehicle Signal Check" button on screen. That should show things like battery voltage, park brake on, speed, etc., but somewhere near there is a CAN check. If it's not in this menu, it should be in there somewhere. If you find this menu, if you can let me know how you got there.
What I'm looking for is a screen that says "CAN Connection check", and will probably say CAN Connection OK. This screen does not exist in my unit, and I think is the key for the energy screen.
One last check while you are in there. Get back to the home menu. Press the "Navigation Check" button on the touch screen, then press the "Parts Information" button on the touch screen. Let me know what numbers are in there.
I think the first part number is the firmware, and the second is the disk.
Mine is:
NAVI Information
DENSO
1650
Disk Information
DENSO
V06.05.11
I suspect the first number might be different in the units for hybrids. The second may be different depending what version of disk you have.
To get out of the diagnostic menu, simply hold your DISP button for about 3 seconds and you'll be back to normal.
Thanks in advance!!!!!!!
It will really help narrow this down.
Dan
#18
01-07-2007, 06:45 AM
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 187
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
[I]
Dang
Dan, From what I have read in other threads there are definitely 2 models of navigation unit made for the Camry. The standard unit and the hybrid unit. Toyota Canada in their wisdom has decided to stock and dealer install only the non hybrid version regardless of the vehicle. I am guessing the hybrid unit is probably the same as the standard unit but with different "firmware" inside the box.
Curious to know where you are located in Canada and how recently you have purchased your car? Was it manufactured in Japan or Kentucky, (not sure this makes any difference as regardless of the manufacturing location of the cars would be built to the Toyota, Canada spec)? Has your dealer washed his hands of your problem and have you discussed with Toyota? Sorry for so many questions!
Paul
Originally Posted by Dang;........The kit to do the install does not connect the CAN wires between the Nav and the Hybrid ECU required for the energy screen to work. That said, it would "appear" based on other people's experience, that even if you were to connect these, the energy screen would not appear. [/I
Dang
Dan, From what I have read in other threads there are definitely 2 models of navigation unit made for the Camry. The standard unit and the hybrid unit. Toyota Canada in their wisdom has decided to stock and dealer install only the non hybrid version regardless of the vehicle. I am guessing the hybrid unit is probably the same as the standard unit but with different "firmware" inside the box.
Curious to know where you are located in Canada and how recently you have purchased your car? Was it manufactured in Japan or Kentucky, (not sure this makes any difference as regardless of the manufacturing location of the cars would be built to the Toyota, Canada spec)? Has your dealer washed his hands of your problem and have you discussed with Toyota? Sorry for so many questions!
Paul
#19
01-07-2007, 01:13 PM
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
I have the Version 5.1 mapping DVD and find it to be quite a bit out of date. Also I've found that one park in downtown Calgary to be on the wrong side of the street according to the NAV system.
The other day we did a short trip south of town and at one point it wanted me to turn left which would have put me in a field.
On little trips around Calgary it consistently picks routes that are either further or much slower than ones I would myself pick even though I ask for either the shortest or fastest route. I'm not at all impressed with the performance but it would get you where ever you wanted to go in a strange city and you most likely wouldn't know it was not the most efficient way to get there.
For what I paid for the system I am very much not impressed.
Oh by the way my dealer gave me my old radio when I took delivery of the car, I still have it sitting on the bench out in the garage.
The other day we did a short trip south of town and at one point it wanted me to turn left which would have put me in a field.
On little trips around Calgary it consistently picks routes that are either further or much slower than ones I would myself pick even though I ask for either the shortest or fastest route. I'm not at all impressed with the performance but it would get you where ever you wanted to go in a strange city and you most likely wouldn't know it was not the most efficient way to get there.
For what I paid for the system I am very much not impressed.
Oh by the way my dealer gave me my old radio when I took delivery of the car, I still have it sitting on the bench out in the garage.
FYI, your Toyota dealer can order you a replacement Navigation Map Disc to correct the wrong location problem under Technical Service Bulletin EL012-06 but you have to take your car to the dealer first for an inspection of your navigation system.
#20
01-07-2007, 01:25 PM
Re: ? for Navigation Owners
Paul...
I have the same thinking as you. I suspect the reason there is only one part number is there is actually only one unit, and slightly different firmware is loaded in to enable the energy screen. I'm not as familiar with the DENSO units, but have gone through this with VDO and Blaupunkt. I even have some firmware disks for those units. The somewhat good news is if true, if you could get the firmware disk and connect up the CAN wires, you'd be able to make any unit work for the energy screen. That's why I asked for one of our American friends to check their diagnostic for CAN and see if it has a different firmware number (assuming that really is the firmware number). The bad news is getting the firmware disk is going to be very difficult.
My car is "I think" from Japan, but of course the Nav was added later, so who knows where that came from. I just put it in before Christmas. I talked to the service manager briefly, and they said they were going to talk to Toyota, but I really haven't follow up yet and pressed my dealer. I may bring up returning the unit, which I don't expect to go well. By the way, my dealer gave me the radio originally in my car. I would have thought all dealers would do the same. You could sell it!
I'm in Calgary, bought from Country Hills, who so far have been great to deal with. What's a little bit fustrating is I knew people that had done their own installations (like RickW also here in Calgary) didn't get the energy screen to work. That's why I checked with the dealer several times before I ordered it to make sure it will.
Hopefully one of the U.S. guys can confirm the screens, so at least we know where we stand.
Later!
Dan
I have the same thinking as you. I suspect the reason there is only one part number is there is actually only one unit, and slightly different firmware is loaded in to enable the energy screen. I'm not as familiar with the DENSO units, but have gone through this with VDO and Blaupunkt. I even have some firmware disks for those units. The somewhat good news is if true, if you could get the firmware disk and connect up the CAN wires, you'd be able to make any unit work for the energy screen. That's why I asked for one of our American friends to check their diagnostic for CAN and see if it has a different firmware number (assuming that really is the firmware number). The bad news is getting the firmware disk is going to be very difficult.
My car is "I think" from Japan, but of course the Nav was added later, so who knows where that came from. I just put it in before Christmas. I talked to the service manager briefly, and they said they were going to talk to Toyota, but I really haven't follow up yet and pressed my dealer. I may bring up returning the unit, which I don't expect to go well. By the way, my dealer gave me the radio originally in my car. I would have thought all dealers would do the same. You could sell it!
I'm in Calgary, bought from Country Hills, who so far have been great to deal with. What's a little bit fustrating is I knew people that had done their own installations (like RickW also here in Calgary) didn't get the energy screen to work. That's why I checked with the dealer several times before I ordered it to make sure it will.
Hopefully one of the U.S. guys can confirm the screens, so at least we know where we stand.
Later!
Dan
