Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I've just recently purchased my TCH, and couldn't be happier...

But after reviewing the maintenance schedule I noticed that no reference is made in regards to a drain and refill for the fluid. Also, there is no transmission dipstick so I can't check on the fluid level.

Has anyone out there heard when we should drain and refill? Anyone also hear how we can check fluid levels?

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Since TCH has no transmission per se (it's more like differential gear than auto transmission) , there is no dipstick and there is no easy way to check or replace that fluid. I think that oil is rated for the life of the car, but some Prius owners experienced problems and failures. There is filling hole on the bottom of the transmission and I think you can drop the lower pan, but I wouldn't worry about it for at least 50k miles and probably ask dealer to do it, unless I could lift the car and had very good access from the bottom.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I wonder if anyone has contacted their Toyota service department to get their take?

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

There is a drain hole and a fill hole. Both appear to be NPT style plugs. One simply refills the fluid until it starts to run out.

On CONVENTIONAL transmissions you could only drain about one-third of the oil volume via the drain as the rest was held up in the torque converter, valve body and elsewhere in the system. I always made it a habit to drain whatever was in the pan at every oil change and replace with fresh. This was a cheap and simple way to ensure fresh oil fairly constantly.

Now on these new eCVT's... I really don't know much about them, but the other posters suggestion of a 50k/mile drain interval seems reasonable. There is no such thing as a "lifetime fluid". I do recall reading somewhere that the fluid itself is either viscosity or friction modified in some way so using OEM oil would be required... I wouldn't go dumping plain DEXRON in there.

Personally, I won't worry too much about it until around 50k. By then we should have good data and collective experience to guide us.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

When I picked up my car, I was given a printout of the maintenance schedule and it listed a Hybrid System fluid change at around 100,000km. I asked how much that cost and was told around $80.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

The eCVT in the TCH uses Toyota World Standard (WS) automatic transmission fluid. This fluid is now being used by most of Toyota's line-up. The fluid runs about $45/gal and can be purchased quite easily at any Toyota parts counter.

The eCVTs do not have a torque converter (correct me if I'm wrong), so draining the unit will pretty much remove all of the old fluid. The fill and drain setup is similar to an automatic transmission. Drain via the drain plug, and fill via a fill hole. Check the service manual for the instructions or Toyota's online technical reference service.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Hmmm... I guess now the question remains...

What is the magic number to change the fluid. I'm sure geographic locations, & styles of driving will all come into play.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I just spoke with a service guy last night, the dealer was performing some warranty service for my TCH.

As the so called "expert" in Hybrids in the service department, he advised that the eCVT transmission fluid needs to be changed at 100,000 miles. He stated that the fluid is a world standard fluid.

I'm a little skeptical, and weary. I definitely don't want a fried transmission, does anyone know what the Prius's have been doing? Or does anyone have any input?

Thanks,

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

SodaGuy,

So what do you think the magic number would be to have the fluid changed?

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I think every 60k miles is a good interval. It's a bit conservative, but Toyota recommends every 60k if the vehicle is operated under very severe service (i.e. towing).

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I'm curious whether the fluid referred to in that document is the inverter coolant? "Hybrid System fluid" is a very vague term...

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Please see my previous post. The maintenance printout I was given by the dealer says 100,000km (60,000 miles).

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

The booklet that came with my car, "Scheduled Maintenance Guide, 2007 Camry Hybrid" does not mention any transmission oil change at any interval and it goes up to 120k miles, but it does list change of spark plugs at 120k. However it does mention inspection of transmission fluid, engine/inverter coolant among other things, so I wonder how one supposed to do that , especially tranny oil. I would suggest that if anybody decides to change the oil, he/she should drain some of it into small bottle and send it for analysis together with fresh oil for comparison. That should give us some idea if and when oil should be changed in the future. I'm planning to change mine at around 50k, which should be sometime around next summer. We should be looking for viscosity drop (no more than 15 %) and foreign particles like silicon and metal. Also it would be important to replace it with Toyota WS oil, other brands may not be compatible with electric motor's coil insulation and do more damage than good in the long run. I think break fluid and coolant also should be changed at around 100k to avoid any problems.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

It can last a long, perhaps life of your car, since there is no friction parts like clutch plates, so no contamination.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I asked the hybrid tech how often the lifetime transmission oil should be changed when my TCH was in for it's 25K service. He said Toyota recommends the TCH be changed every 90,000 miles. Sounds like a reasonable interval considering there are no clutches, valve bodies, etc to wear.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

It's funny how every time someone asks, they seem to get a different answer on these types of things... :confused:

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Maybe, because the car and hybrid technology in it is so new , there are no long term, large scale studies? The oldest Prius on US road should be about 8 years now and that model used different oil anyway. Also cars are driven in different places, from frozen Canada to heat scorched Arizona.
And if there is no friction inside, why would they be using oil to begin with?
There are bearings inside, there is gear friction and heat from electric motors. The oil should last longer than in regular transmission, but who knows how much longer. There were transmission failures in original Prius and testing showed lower viscosity in used WS oil as well, also particulates like silicon kept increasing as oil was getting older. If anybody was hoping to drive the car past 100k maximum warranty Toyota will issue, oil change is no brainer. On the other hand I highly doubt the tranny would fail in the first 100k with or without any oil change. it's past 120k I would start worrying about, because once the oil loses it's viscosity and preserving properties the damage can be done rather quickly.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Even the conventional Camry's have no transmission dipstick these days. They are sealed and the fluid is not on the list of things for servicing. The only mention is if the transmission itself is serviced to not reuse the existing fluid but nothing about changing it periodically. Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

That's why I'm confused...
You figure it would be in the best interest of Toyota for them to disclose a mileage of when to change the fluid.

If you have TCH owners thinking they never have to change the fluid, and have burnt transmissions on their hands, they're not going to be happy campers, myself included.

I think Toyota should release an official statement on life expectancy, and service instructions on the fluid....

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Not in this country it isn't. Our Federal government, using your tax money, has established baseline standards for "total cost of ownership" as a means of comparing vehicles. Therefore *any* routine maintenance that can be extended or eliminated will reduce the total cost of ownership.

Presumably nobody thought of the ramifications of your "ownership experience" ending prematurely due to neglected maintenance. Hey, if the cars 'lifetime' is cut short they can still claim that your costs of maintaining the car across the (shortened) life were kept small.

Only in America!

Dump that tranny oil at 50k.

"Tom from Granada Hills"... I used to be "Tom from North Hollywood" (now Claremont). Nice to meet you.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

The transmission has "lifetime" transmission oil.....Doesn't that mean if you do not open the transmission, or have any problems that would force you to disturb it,,,leave it alone. What am I missing???

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I'm not a scientist or a petrochemical engineer... but I've changed a few transmissions in my day. Tranny's that ran on original fluid typically would eat a clutch pack or burn a solenoid at 75-110k/miles. Maybe half would fail like this. The fluid was always dark-brown and smelled rancid. OTOH, people who changed the oil at reasonable intervals simply did not have this problem.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen with regular maintenance but the occurrences of such failures between these statistical subsets were exponentially different.

Please do feel free to follow those "lifetime" recommendations, but I stand by my advice.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Not to be argumentative but, your experience with conventional transmissions do not necessaraly apply to the hybrid drive train. My point is simple,,,If Toyota does not recomend a transmission oil change at a specific time or millage, I would not do it. I did not notice any reference to transmission oil change in the scheduled maintenance printing. Did I miss it?

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

No you did not miss it. They don't recommend changing unless under the "severe" maintenance cycle.

BUT. If you check out PriusChat (or PriusOnline), the transaxles DO degrade the oil. Often before 60k miles. Bob Wilson has done a lot of work on analysing oil samples. There are numbers of MY2001-2003 Prii that are experiencing transaxle failures.

I don't want to be one of those experiencing a failure. I intend to change my oil soon (and do an analysis too). I'm at 28k. I will probably change mine at 30k. People have been able to get their dealers to change the fluid on a Prius for under $100 (~$80 ave). The Camry should be the same. I look at it as cheap and harmless insurance.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Absolutely. We just don't know what the real world will do to these new style transmissions. In my opinion, $10 worth of fluid and 30 minutes of my time is cheap insurance against me being one of the first guys to find out.

I do the same thing with power steering and brake fluid. It's not supposed to be black and burn your nostrils. So when your $1,300 steering rack eats a seal at 80k/miles, most people just accept it. Some of those people laugh at guys like me who keep the life-blood of the system clean and fresh. To each their own I suppose.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Another confusing point, I just had some basic service done and had asked the service adcisor when I should look to change the coolant.

He's telling me 3 years or 36k

Any feedback from anybody out there?

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I have a service contract for my TCH for the first 45,000 miles and it shows changing the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles. I had read somewhere that unless the car is used in a towing capacity or in dusty or extreme weather conditions it didn't need to be changed. I'm of the belief that it probably should be changed at LEAST every 45-60 thousand miles. After all.......it is a transmission fluid and therefore will wear out after a certain amount of time or miles. It's not something worth gambling on indefinately........in my opinion.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

MY 2 CENTS.

THEIR IS NOTHING LIFE TIME. ESPECIALY A FLUID SO CHNAGE IT WHEN EVER YOU ARE COMFORTABLE. I am getting ready to change mine soon the ATF-WS 4qt cost me 34 and some change. that's all. Its the cost of buying mobile one full synthetic oil on sale. i do things my self most of the time and i would like to start doing this also. My TCH has 50000 miles and i have to say i do feel a little hesitation and its time for me.

All the experience that i have had with so CALLED EXPERTS has been horrible. THEY KNOW NOTHING. These are the same people who dropped out of highschool in their freshman year and passed a so called test granted some of them are very knoligeble, but they dont have experience they just tell you what they think which is backed by bullshit. "NORMAL CONDITIONS & LIFE TIME FLUID" is horribly vague for describing for describing a essential parts fluid longevity. If you ask them whats "LIFE-TIME" its 100000 miles just think about it life of your 30K car is 100000 miles. SAD ESPECIALLY coming from ENGINEERS, which makes me feel that they don't have the customer in mind.

watch this AFT-WS FLUID AFTER 80K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiGPFhJdTwg

This might change your mind a a little.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Pretty much all of the old-timers on this forum know that I changed my "transmission" fluid at the 50,000 mile mark. I also change my coolant at around the 45,000 or 90,000 miles mark (depending on the coolant type) on all of my other vehicles as well as their power steering fluid and (if needed/equipped) posi-traction lube, wheel bearing grease, etc.

I also change my brake fluid at every brake change. Be warned however that doing this on these hybrids is NOT like any other car you have worked on. You WILL need some advanced electronic bi-directional test equipment to get it done correctly. The good side to this is that the brakes on these cars are rarely pushed hard and seem to last a long time. Because of that, the fluid in my brake system still looks and tests out good despite having 70,000 miles on the clock.

There is no such thing as a lifetime fluid in a car unless you drove a Yugo. For a Yugo, the 15,000 miles the car lasted WAS less than the lifetime of the fluid.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I just purchased a 2008 TCH with 28K miles. Changing the transmission fluid is cheap insurance and tells you alot about the condition of the unit. My fluid came out very dark and some kind of yellow substance was in the bottom of the catch pan. I would highly recommend that DIYs change your fluid at reasonable intervals. IMO a resonable interval is 30K miles or 2 years.
The cost for Toyota ATFWS was $7.78/Qt at a local dealer and it takes 4- Qts.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

My fluid, after 91k miles was pretty much the same as new, no strange smells, good red color etc etc. I didn't take sample for testing, but I did notice nice pressure difference inside the casing when opening , it took good couple seconds of hissing and I think the negative pressure was inside the casing. I thought the transaxle had some venting, I wonder if it was just my car with broken vent, or there is no venting on TCH transaxle?
As a reminder: TCH manual says to change both coolants (engine and converter, same type fluid) at 100k, iridium sparks at 120k. I didn't see any mention on break fluid and tranny oil. The good thing is TCH doesn't have normal transmission, just whole bunch of planetary gears and electric motors , so the oil should run cooler and therefore last longer.
Not sure why dg370 had such bad oil in his transaxle only after 28k, but I think changing it every 30k is a bit excessive. Except for cooling electric motors, the oil in transaxle does the same job as oil in differential in any other car and those usually last forever.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

Pete,

Mine came out looking nice and red but the problem with the Toyota Power Split Device (transmission) is the fact that the planetary gears, MG1 and MG2 all run in the same oil bath and that it is splash lubricated. Any small metal particles that are suspended in the fluid find their way into the bearings and windings of the motors where they can cause excessive wear.

The more technical guys on the other Prius forums (not this site) have sent a LOT of samples off at various mileages and have them checked for wear particles and lubricity, viscosity and the remaining additive package of the fluid. The general consensus is that a 50,000 to 60,000 mile change interval is prudent considering the failures of some transaxles whose fluid was not changed. I find it nice and simple to change, only costs a few dollars and is cheap insurance.

Your other replacements (both coolants and spark plugs) will be changed at the 100,000 mile mark on my cars as well as other items that I do just "because" Those would include the water pump (if not done before then) the serpentine belt, upper and lower radiator hoses, etc. I change these items out because they have a finite life, can cause you to become stranded when they go out during a trip and are what I call preventive maintenance. I hate being stuck on the side of the road and NEVER want my wife or two daughters in that predicament.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

I'm following Prius chats with interest as well and I think Bob Wilson did extensive testings of transaxle oil. If I remember correctly, the consensus was that original Prius absolutely needs tranny oil change on regular basis, however newer generation using WS oil wasn't as bad and lasted much longer. It also depends on particular car and since mine looked pretty good, I'm not going to worry about it too much. I don't change any hoses, belts etc, unless they seem they need to be changed during visual inspections. For some strange reason, in my experience with many different cars original, factory installed parts last forever, as soon as I change them, even with same dealer purchased part, often they won't last half the time and that goes for hoses, radiators, master cylinders etc.

Re: Transmission Service for Camry Hybrid
 

INFINITY..! For wont of a "number" symbol.