Fuel Matters!
#31
04-04-2007, 09:57 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
livvie - westweb post #27 just checked in with a similar experience as me. I live in Arkansas, he lives in California and we don't know each other.
You know, you don't have to try this stuff since you're content with what you have. I'm trying to help people with what I've learned and I can't figure out why you're so against me. Mobil gas isn't Shell gas and the price of gasoline is essentially the same yet you discourage others to reject what I've learned.
Ive seen an increase in mpg with each tank of Shell I've used and you reject this. Westweb saw the same. I didn't see any difference between Phillips and the other brands I tried. So much for your Mobil and Haffner's fuel.
Shell gas has increased my 2006 Prius mpg, period. I don't know why but it has made a significant difference in fuel economy.
If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in?
You know, you don't have to try this stuff since you're content with what you have. I'm trying to help people with what I've learned and I can't figure out why you're so against me. Mobil gas isn't Shell gas and the price of gasoline is essentially the same yet you discourage others to reject what I've learned.
Ive seen an increase in mpg with each tank of Shell I've used and you reject this. Westweb saw the same. I didn't see any difference between Phillips and the other brands I tried. So much for your Mobil and Haffner's fuel.
Shell gas has increased my 2006 Prius mpg, period. I don't know why but it has made a significant difference in fuel economy.
If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in?
Last edited by New 2006 Prius; 04-04-2007 at 10:00 AM.
#32
04-04-2007, 10:56 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
Ray- I'm sorry if I offended you, but we certainly have a lot of posters here with industry connections and we even get salespeople from time to time. Not always a bad thing- the ScanGauge guy offered us discounts! Gotta like that! You being such a new poster makes that kind of thing more likely, and any emphasis on a brand name potentially raises a flag, so I thought it was worth mentioning. You seem like an earnest guy, and that's great.
We aren't rejecting your data. We are interested in your data, so we challenge it with questions and inquiries for more particulars, (well, most of us do) because we are taking a scientific approach. It's hard to tell by what some people post online how reliable any of their information may be, and a little reasonable discussion can often provide us with additional useful tidbits.
The normal variation in mpg that I get from week to week and month to month seems to me to connect very closely to weather, nearly as closely to my driving style, and often closely with road conditions, familiarity of route, type of traffic, speed, and so on. I have never kept track of the type of gasoline I buy or tested its impact on FE, but with all these other significant variables, I think it might be hard for me to test that to my satisfaction, in any controlled way. I think that Bob's idea about the calorimeter is probably the best one in terms of an authoritative result, and if people develop and perform other tests, I would certainly be interested in seeing the data. We love data here!
We aren't rejecting your data. We are interested in your data, so we challenge it with questions and inquiries for more particulars, (well, most of us do) because we are taking a scientific approach. It's hard to tell by what some people post online how reliable any of their information may be, and a little reasonable discussion can often provide us with additional useful tidbits.
The normal variation in mpg that I get from week to week and month to month seems to me to connect very closely to weather, nearly as closely to my driving style, and often closely with road conditions, familiarity of route, type of traffic, speed, and so on. I have never kept track of the type of gasoline I buy or tested its impact on FE, but with all these other significant variables, I think it might be hard for me to test that to my satisfaction, in any controlled way. I think that Bob's idea about the calorimeter is probably the best one in terms of an authoritative result, and if people develop and perform other tests, I would certainly be interested in seeing the data. We love data here!
#33
04-04-2007, 11:27 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
livvie - westweb post #27 just checked in with a similar experience as me. I live in Arkansas, he lives in California and we don't know each other.
You know, you don't have to try this stuff since you're content with what you have. I'm trying to help people with what I've learned and I can't figure out why you're so against me. Mobil gas isn't Shell gas and the price of gasoline is essentially the same yet you discourage others to reject what I've learned.
Ive seen an increase in mpg with each tank of Shell I've used and you reject this. Westweb saw the same. I didn't see any difference between Phillips and the other brands I tried. So much for your Mobil and Haffner's fuel.
Shell gas has increased my 2006 Prius mpg, period. I don't know why but it has made a significant difference in fuel economy.
If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in?
You know, you don't have to try this stuff since you're content with what you have. I'm trying to help people with what I've learned and I can't figure out why you're so against me. Mobil gas isn't Shell gas and the price of gasoline is essentially the same yet you discourage others to reject what I've learned.
Ive seen an increase in mpg with each tank of Shell I've used and you reject this. Westweb saw the same. I didn't see any difference between Phillips and the other brands I tried. So much for your Mobil and Haffner's fuel.
Shell gas has increased my 2006 Prius mpg, period. I don't know why but it has made a significant difference in fuel economy.
If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in?
First this is a FORUM... which means we discuss thing... not just swallow the pill or drink the kool-aid you serve. If you can't handle a simple argument, then I might suggest that you don't participate in forums. If your argument can't handle any criticism then it's not much of an argument. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this as well. I don't have to agree with what you say in order to participate.
No I don't reject what you are saying I'm just saying you will get the same result with another non-brand gas.
Last edited by livvie; 04-04-2007 at 11:31 AM.
#34
04-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Re: Fuel Matters!
[quote=livvie;119484]First this is a FORUM... which means we discuss thing... not just swallow the pill or drink the kool-aid you serve. If you can't handle a simple argument, then I might suggest that you don't participate in forums. If your argument can't handle any criticism then it's not much of an argument. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this as well. I don't have to agree with what you say in order to participate.
First of all this is my thread and I'll share what I want.
Second, I haven’t asked you or anyone to ‘swallow’ anything I've shared. Look at my posts on this thread and you’ll find I want people to validate what I’ve found.
I can handle constructive criticism but I don't do well with non-objective whining. Your statements are meaningless and only clutter this thread.
I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have shared what I found and you're complaining about it. You haven't tried Shell only other brands but you state that fuel doesn't matter no matter what I or anyone else says.
You're not interested in trying Shell. Two people have posted that Shell has increased their hybrid mpgs significantly and you say fuel doesn't matter. Well livvie, from our perspective Fuel Matters!
Like I wrote earlier - If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in? If you want to be a participant then it's great but if not then please be gracious and stand off.
First of all this is my thread and I'll share what I want.
Second, I haven’t asked you or anyone to ‘swallow’ anything I've shared. Look at my posts on this thread and you’ll find I want people to validate what I’ve found.
I can handle constructive criticism but I don't do well with non-objective whining. Your statements are meaningless and only clutter this thread.
I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have shared what I found and you're complaining about it. You haven't tried Shell only other brands but you state that fuel doesn't matter no matter what I or anyone else says.
You're not interested in trying Shell. Two people have posted that Shell has increased their hybrid mpgs significantly and you say fuel doesn't matter. Well livvie, from our perspective Fuel Matters!
Like I wrote earlier - If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in? If you want to be a participant then it's great but if not then please be gracious and stand off.
#35
04-04-2007, 07:38 PM
Re: Fuel Matters!
[quote=leahbeatle;119478]Ray- I'm sorry if I offended you, but we certainly have a lot of posters here with industry connections and we even get salespeople from time to time. Not always a bad thing- the ScanGauge guy offered us discounts! Gotta like that! You being such a new poster makes that kind of thing more likely, and any emphasis on a brand name potentially raises a flag, so I thought it was worth mentioning. You seem like an earnest guy, and that's great.
Apology accepted, I understand.
As you may have read in my last post to livvie I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have stated what I've found so that anyone who is interested can try to validate what I'm experiencing (increased mpg with a specific gasoline) on their own. What I've suggested doesn't cost anyone anything above what they are already spending except perhaps the time to drive to a different gas station.
If it works then the person who tries saves money. If not then there's no loss at all. How can this not be a 'scientific' approach?
My years of field experiences tell me that two or three tanks will tell the tale. It accounts for automotive computer adjustments with the change of fuel. Bob is going four gallons per test. This may be good but I see it as a quick 'snap-shot'. Although I'm interested in seeing what he finds I'm still sticking with a fuel that I have learned without doubt is successful. If he finds a different fuel that works well that's available in my area I will try it too. But I know what doesn't work well with my Prius.
I wish my car got better mpg on other gasolines because it would do much better on this stuff.
And about livvies response about off-brand gasolines not being harmful to engines - I have a mechanic friend in Vicksburg Mississippi that tells me otherwise. I have another friend in the town I live in who owns a fuel distrubution company and he told me the same thing many years ago. He told me there is no quality control at some of the off-brand gasoline stations and said in Arkansas there is no requirement for these stations to maintain any standards. In other words, buying off-brand gasoline is risky.
Apology accepted, I understand.
As you may have read in my last post to livvie I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have stated what I've found so that anyone who is interested can try to validate what I'm experiencing (increased mpg with a specific gasoline) on their own. What I've suggested doesn't cost anyone anything above what they are already spending except perhaps the time to drive to a different gas station.
If it works then the person who tries saves money. If not then there's no loss at all. How can this not be a 'scientific' approach?
My years of field experiences tell me that two or three tanks will tell the tale. It accounts for automotive computer adjustments with the change of fuel. Bob is going four gallons per test. This may be good but I see it as a quick 'snap-shot'. Although I'm interested in seeing what he finds I'm still sticking with a fuel that I have learned without doubt is successful. If he finds a different fuel that works well that's available in my area I will try it too. But I know what doesn't work well with my Prius.
I wish my car got better mpg on other gasolines because it would do much better on this stuff.
And about livvies response about off-brand gasolines not being harmful to engines - I have a mechanic friend in Vicksburg Mississippi that tells me otherwise. I have another friend in the town I live in who owns a fuel distrubution company and he told me the same thing many years ago. He told me there is no quality control at some of the off-brand gasoline stations and said in Arkansas there is no requirement for these stations to maintain any standards. In other words, buying off-brand gasoline is risky.
#36
04-05-2007, 07:04 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
[quote=New 2006 Prius;119517]
First of all this is my thread and I'll share what I want.
Second, I haven’t asked you or anyone to ‘swallow’ anything I've shared. Look at my posts on this thread and you’ll find I want people to validate what I’ve found.
I can handle constructive criticism but I don't do well with non-objective whining. Your statements are meaningless and only clutter this thread.
I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have shared what I found and you're complaining about it. You haven't tried Shell only other brands but you state that fuel doesn't matter no matter what I or anyone else says.
You're not interested in trying Shell. Two people have posted that Shell has increased their hybrid mpgs significantly and you say fuel doesn't matter. Well livvie, from our perspective Fuel Matters!
Like I wrote earlier - If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in? If you want to be a participant then it's great but if not then please be gracious and stand off.
It's my thread, whaaa, how lame is that. The only person whining is you.
I would like to verify your test but there are no Phillips 66 stations around here. Like I've said I have not noticed any difference in FE using name brand or non-brand name fuels. Let me repeat that, I have NOT noticed any difference in FE using brand or non-brand name fuels. You still don't get that point for whatever reason. You would rather concentrate on excluding comments that are not inline with what you are saying which makes me believe that maybe some other poster here are right and you do have something to gain by this.
So I still don't buy it was Shell that made it all better. For your conclusion to have any validity it will take information from more that two types of gas (both name brand and non brand) with Shell always coming up on top. You have only tested 2 stations and came to a conclusion, WOW, that's scientific of you. Then you are going to have to show other prius owner getting similar results which will be a lot harder especially since you seem to exclude data that doesn't jive with your results.
One last thing, you would think if Shell had the magic formula, it would be a marketing firm's dream come true. Why doesn't Shell know about their own gas doing wonders to mpg?
First this is a FORUM... which means we discuss thing... not just swallow the pill or drink the kool-aid you serve. If you can't handle a simple argument, then I might suggest that you don't participate in forums. If your argument can't handle any criticism then it's not much of an argument. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this as well. I don't have to agree with what you say in order to participate.
First of all this is my thread and I'll share what I want.
Second, I haven’t asked you or anyone to ‘swallow’ anything I've shared. Look at my posts on this thread and you’ll find I want people to validate what I’ve found.
I can handle constructive criticism but I don't do well with non-objective whining. Your statements are meaningless and only clutter this thread.
I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have shared what I found and you're complaining about it. You haven't tried Shell only other brands but you state that fuel doesn't matter no matter what I or anyone else says.
You're not interested in trying Shell. Two people have posted that Shell has increased their hybrid mpgs significantly and you say fuel doesn't matter. Well livvie, from our perspective Fuel Matters!
Like I wrote earlier - If you're not going to help or participate then why don't you just sit this one out and see what develops instead of complaining about things you have no knowledge of and don't care to participate in? If you want to be a participant then it's great but if not then please be gracious and stand off.
I would like to verify your test but there are no Phillips 66 stations around here. Like I've said I have not noticed any difference in FE using name brand or non-brand name fuels. Let me repeat that, I have NOT noticed any difference in FE using brand or non-brand name fuels. You still don't get that point for whatever reason. You would rather concentrate on excluding comments that are not inline with what you are saying which makes me believe that maybe some other poster here are right and you do have something to gain by this.
So I still don't buy it was Shell that made it all better. For your conclusion to have any validity it will take information from more that two types of gas (both name brand and non brand) with Shell always coming up on top. You have only tested 2 stations and came to a conclusion, WOW, that's scientific of you. Then you are going to have to show other prius owner getting similar results which will be a lot harder especially since you seem to exclude data that doesn't jive with your results.
One last thing, you would think if Shell had the magic formula, it would be a marketing firm's dream come true. Why doesn't Shell know about their own gas doing wonders to mpg?
#37
04-05-2007, 07:17 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
[quote=New 2006 Prius;119547]
Ok... so now I'm going now trust some friend of yours that off-brand gasoline is risky yet no data to back that up? Maybe additives do make a difference but the difference is so small that it's meaningless. Can you provide links to back up this claim. So I guess all my cars have been lucky to survive my torture? My oldest car which was a 1995 Acura Integra GSR manage to go 190K miles without a single issue and for the majority of it's time, it ran on non-brand name fuel.
What I'm looking for is data that shows something similar to what dino-oil vs synthetic oil can do for you.
Ray- I'm sorry if I offended you, but we certainly have a lot of posters here with industry connections and we even get salespeople from time to time. Not always a bad thing- the ScanGauge guy offered us discounts! Gotta like that! You being such a new poster makes that kind of thing more likely, and any emphasis on a brand name potentially raises a flag, so I thought it was worth mentioning. You seem like an earnest guy, and that's great.
Apology accepted, I understand.
As you may have read in my last post to livvie I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have stated what I've found so that anyone who is interested can try to validate what I'm experiencing (increased mpg with a specific gasoline) on their own. What I've suggested doesn't cost anyone anything above what they are already spending except perhaps the time to drive to a different gas station.
If it works then the person who tries saves money. If not then there's no loss at all. How can this not be a 'scientific' approach?
My years of field experiences tell me that two or three tanks will tell the tale. It accounts for automotive computer adjustments with the change of fuel. Bob is going four gallons per test. This may be good but I see it as a quick 'snap-shot'. Although I'm interested in seeing what he finds I'm still sticking with a fuel that I have learned without doubt is successful. If he finds a different fuel that works well that's available in my area I will try it too. But I know what doesn't work well with my Prius.
I wish my car got better mpg on other gasolines because it would do much better on this stuff.
And about livvies response about off-brand gasolines not being harmful to engines - I have a mechanic friend in Vicksburg Mississippi that tells me otherwise. I have another friend in the town I live in who owns a fuel distrubution company and he told me the same thing many years ago. He told me there is no quality control at some of the off-brand gasoline stations and said in Arkansas there is no requirement for these stations to maintain any standards. In other words, buying off-brand gasoline is risky.
Apology accepted, I understand.
As you may have read in my last post to livvie I don't want anyone to blindly accept anything from any source. I have stated what I've found so that anyone who is interested can try to validate what I'm experiencing (increased mpg with a specific gasoline) on their own. What I've suggested doesn't cost anyone anything above what they are already spending except perhaps the time to drive to a different gas station.
If it works then the person who tries saves money. If not then there's no loss at all. How can this not be a 'scientific' approach?
My years of field experiences tell me that two or three tanks will tell the tale. It accounts for automotive computer adjustments with the change of fuel. Bob is going four gallons per test. This may be good but I see it as a quick 'snap-shot'. Although I'm interested in seeing what he finds I'm still sticking with a fuel that I have learned without doubt is successful. If he finds a different fuel that works well that's available in my area I will try it too. But I know what doesn't work well with my Prius.
I wish my car got better mpg on other gasolines because it would do much better on this stuff.
And about livvies response about off-brand gasolines not being harmful to engines - I have a mechanic friend in Vicksburg Mississippi that tells me otherwise. I have another friend in the town I live in who owns a fuel distrubution company and he told me the same thing many years ago. He told me there is no quality control at some of the off-brand gasoline stations and said in Arkansas there is no requirement for these stations to maintain any standards. In other words, buying off-brand gasoline is risky.
What I'm looking for is data that shows something similar to what dino-oil vs synthetic oil can do for you.
#38
04-05-2007, 08:58 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
livvie,
Two people have said their Priuses have seen better fuel mileage with Shell gas. Other fuels may be good too. I cannot comprehend why you have a problem with this.
I started this thread on March 28. I’ve shared something I've found unique with one fuel as compared to others I've used with my Prius. I have asked for help from other interested people to validate what I’ve found and compare findings and you are only interested in bickering.
You have made your statements now please leave.
Two people have said their Priuses have seen better fuel mileage with Shell gas. Other fuels may be good too. I cannot comprehend why you have a problem with this.
I started this thread on March 28. I’ve shared something I've found unique with one fuel as compared to others I've used with my Prius. I have asked for help from other interested people to validate what I’ve found and compare findings and you are only interested in bickering.
You have made your statements now please leave.
Last edited by New 2006 Prius; 04-05-2007 at 09:03 AM.
#39
04-05-2007, 09:36 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
Fellows, this nastiness isn't productive. The matter will only be resolved when we have some hard data. Let's wait for bwilson4web to conduct his carefully controlled experiments. Thanks for stepping forward and offering to do this Bob!
Stan
Stan
#40
04-05-2007, 10:24 AM
Re: Fuel Matters!
livvie,
Two people have said their Priuses have seen better fuel mileage with Shell gas. Other fuels may be good too. I cannot comprehend why you have a problem with this.
I started this thread on March 28. I’ve shared something I've found unique with one fuel as compared to others I've used with my Prius. I have asked for help from other interested people to validate what I’ve found and compare findings and you are only interested in bickering.
You have made your statements now please leave.
Two people have said their Priuses have seen better fuel mileage with Shell gas. Other fuels may be good too. I cannot comprehend why you have a problem with this.
I started this thread on March 28. I’ve shared something I've found unique with one fuel as compared to others I've used with my Prius. I have asked for help from other interested people to validate what I’ve found and compare findings and you are only interested in bickering.
You have made your statements now please leave.
As for bickering... go read the whole thread from the start and you will see the only bickering is coming from your end first. Or don't I don't care.
