We have a fleet of Civic GX's here at work. There have been issues with the CVT's, all of which were handled under warranty, I believe. From this experience, I have to put a check mark in the Prius transmission column, rather than the Civic Hybrid's transmission, for reliability.

The Civic Hybrid was not available from my Honda dealer. The Civic Hybrid loses the fold-down rear seats, a feature I have become very fond of in my two conventional Civics. The Prius has that feature, and more room.

For me, it all added up to choosing the Prius. I still love my conventional Civics, and would never part with them.

Harry

 

I'm surprised no one has come up with a repackaged battery pack to at least allow a split, fold-down seat on the passenger side. Toyota had a similar problem with the Camry Hybrid and put in a 'port hole' for long but narrow loads (aka., fishing poles, a couple of 2x4s.)

My NHW11 rear seats don't fold down either. However, I've got a receiver hitch and a light-weight trailer for oversized loads. But it looks to me that a repackaged battery pack could support a passenger side, fold down seat. Unfortunately there is a frame web that would need to be trimmed and a re-enforcing web needed.

Bob Wilson

 

I agree.
However, Honda did take measures to remedy the earlier CVT's failures on their HCH-1. The result now, is that such issues are expected to be far less prevalent with their HCH-2 models. So far, the service bulletins seem to be reporting an "On track" service life for the newer models which may very well make the CVT reliability a non-issue for the 2006 and newer HCH's.

Most folks do seem to agree though, that the HCH-1 CVT issues (2003-2004) could have been avoided or at least better dealth with. But unfortunately Honda were overly optimistic about the HCVT-F service life and the results speak for themselves.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

I agree. Optimal packaging would be key. Apparently pack size, positioning and balance bias seem to be the perenial concerns for Honda and Toyota when hybridizing generic platforms.
I would venture to say that the Camry was a more significant challenge simply because its HSD benefits from a much larger NiMH pack than the HCH-2. In terms of proportion the Camry loses alot more of its trunk space potential than the HCH. In the end they end up with roughly the same trunk volume.

That may be the reason why a dedicated hybrid platform offers so much more potential for configurability while hybridizing a generic platform (Civic, Camry) renders it a compromize in utility and packaging. Can't blame Honda for wanting to going back to producing at least two dedicated hybrid platforms.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Hi Bob, as you are a voracious reader of all things Prius, I suppose you know that rear seat removal on the sedan is not difficult. Those sheet metal bars seemed rather trivial to me. De-installed. The resulting pass-through is only 1 x 3 feet, but better than nothing.

Apparently it was sold in Europe with a folding rear seat, so the hardware exists, somewhere.

DAS

 

Hi Doug,
I think I missed that one. It would be great if some of our European friends might post a photo or two of the NHW11 folding seat. I have an idea how it might be done but photos are great.

I'll pose the question in the European and Prius_Technical_Chat forums.

Bob Wilson

 

Interesting, where have you seen these stats? I was just doing a seat of the pants observation of the general state of whining. Actually I seem to have seen the most problems with the Insight's battery but I don't know if I've ever seen someone have a problem with a Toyota pack. I guess the worst used car would be the Insight CVT?

 

What did they do to improve the CVT? Where are you getting this info? Please post a link, I'd like to read up on it.

 

The principal problem with the earlier CVT's had to do mostly with the CVT recommended service intervals. They were too long and that caused the existing CVTF fluid to degenerate which in some cases exarcebated the slippage and lurching effects reported by owners. In some cases the "damage" was far more pronouced which in the most extreme of cases, led to full transmission replacements. Later on they recommended parts replacements (typically the belt) instead of the transmission swap.

In the end, they noticed that if they had shortened the service interval (HCVTF fluid change) many of the reported issues would have be preventable.

On the HCH-2, Honda decided to formulate its own HCVT fluid and and also manufactured some of the CVT parts in-house (particularly the belt itself). They also made sure the vehicle's maintenance minder feature would enforce the CVT serviciability more accurately as much of the wear and tear depends on actual driver input rather than accumulated miles/kilometers.
These and other smaller measures enabled them to claim a more reliable and dependable life span for the CVT and its components... all the while still reducing the friction and transmission losses over the previous model.

This information is made available in their technical bulletins and investor relations materials. You may also find this info on several web sites including their own world web site: world.honda.com


Cheers;

MSantos

 

[quote=SoopahMan;114226]

The Civic has better acceleration. A bunch of people on this Prius forum will say that's not true and a bunch of people on the Honda one will say it is - whatever. I've driven them both, the Civic's got it by a little bit. [quote]

Wow, this is the first time I’ve ever heard that the HCH is faster than the Prius. A five minute search of independent (non-antidotal) tests consistently puts the Prius ahead of the HCH. And so said the video matches. Who to believe? Who to believe…….?

I’m so confused.

Honda Civic Hybrid

0-60 10.80 sec.
0-70 14.40 sec.
1/4 Mile 18.30 sec.

Toyota Prius

0-60 9.80 sec.
0-70 13.30 sec.
1/4 Mile 17.04 sec.

And why are we comparing the two anyway. They are in separate classes. Compact vs Midsize. Toyota doesn’t have a compact Hybrid. If it did have a compact Hybrid the size and weight of the Civic, lord have mercy…….can you say 100+MPG?


And then came the 2008 Prius………..