FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

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  #41  
Old 05-07-2009, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Originally Posted by econoline
The 2007 FEH owners manual lists:

F11 - Moon roof
F18 - 4x4 - 10A
F35 - 4x4, 110vac outlet, heated seats - 5A

These fuses are in the passenger compartment fuse panel.
The under hood power distribution box has many more fuses but none are specifically labelled as 4x4.

Hope this helps.
Thanks! I'd guess that F18 is always powered and F35 is only in start/run position.

EDIT:
Looking at the wiring diagram again and I see many other things that always have power going to them, so it might be that the 4WD module has no memory to keep alive.
 

Last edited by wptski; 05-07-2009 at 08:33 PM.
  #42  
Old 05-08-2009, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Reconnected to the other fuse on the 4WD module today. It showed a increase in current on moderate/heavy throttle but nothing while crusing at a steady speed. Highest reading was .91A. I still "must" get right on the torque control solenoid for the final word on this. The wire used for the solenoid is only #20AWG which is rated for 1.5A max.
 
  #43  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:32 AM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Try to define "moderate/heavy" throttle in measureable values so others can duplicate the trial.
 
  #44  
Old 05-09-2009, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Originally Posted by Billyk
Try to define "moderate/heavy" throttle in measureable values so others can duplicate the trial.
I would define moderate as faster than granny style driving. I was actually surprised how easy it was show what appears to be rear wheel torque. This happens taking off from a dead stop.

Traffic conditions didn't allow a full throttle from a dead stop trail this time. Traveling at 40-50MPH and giving it full throttle which caused a downshift but didn't show much if any increase as it did from a dead stop.

Now if I could only get the top trim off without breaking it to get on the 4WD module itself. If/when I do, I will monitor both at the same time with a dual channel scope. If they mirrior eachother, using the current at the fuse would be the way to go. A simple fuse adapter, a DMM that'll read current and your good to go.

I don't know if everybody knows or not where the torque control unit is? I sure didn't! The wiring diagram showed the torque control solenoid at the rearend. I crawled under there and there it was, right on top.

That's one thiing I could try. Unplug the solenoid cionnector and see if I draws current then. Not sure if I can twist my arm/hand around to get on it while being flat on my back!
 
  #45  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Well, I finally got into my console but yet the 4WD module was mounted at the bottom with the connector on a side. The output wires to the torque control solenoid were at the bottom. Could even see how to unlock the connector and had to use wire piercing probes after pulling back some tape to loosen the wires up.


Here's a capture of a waveform showing the duty cycle of that torque control solenoid on my scope. I had it measuring duty cycle which showed 25%. From the waveform, each cycle is 1ms, so .24ms pulse width would be 24%. I show zero at a stand still and at a cruising speeds. The highest I seen was around 30% really jumping on it but didn't get a chance to give it a full throttle from a stop because heavy traffic didn't allow it.

Lots of fun trying to drive and push buttons on my scope at the same time!

I'll have more to come. I'll "try" to measure both the current at the fuse and the voltage like below to see how they track together.

I don't really see how the SG-II can show 47% with casual driving when I had to jump on it to get 30%!

 
  #46  
Old 05-13-2009, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Originally Posted by wptski
Well, I finally got into my console but yet the 4WD module was mounted at the bottom with the connector on a side. The output wires to the torque control solenoid were at the bottom. Could even see how to unlock the connector and had to use wire piercing probes after pulling back some tape to loosen the wires up.


Here's a capture of a waveform showing the duty cycle of that torque control solenoid on my scope. I had it measuring duty cycle which showed 25%. From the waveform, each cycle is 1ms, so .24ms pulse width would be 24%. I show zero at a stand still and at a cruising speeds. The highest I seen was around 30% really jumping on it but didn't get a chance to give it a full throttle from a stop because heavy traffic didn't allow it.

Lots of fun trying to drive and push buttons on my scope at the same time!

I'll have more to come. I'll "try" to measure both the current at the fuse and the voltage like below to see how they track together.

I don't really see how the SG-II can show 47% with casual driving when I had to jump on it to get 30%!
A nice easy take off gives you 24%.... most of this thread you spent arguing that a nice easy start should give 0%. I would say that your measurements verify the scangauge readings. I would suspect that the decision as to when and how much torque to send to the rear wheels is different for an FEH vis-a-vis a gas Escape.

Again, the scangauge is only displaying what the vehicle is reporting. I would bet that if you hooked a SG up with the rear wheel torque xgauge it would duplicate what the scope is showing.
 

Last edited by DesertDog; 05-14-2009 at 08:37 AM.
  #47  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Yes, from what I've read, I expected to see only rear wheel torque only with the pedal to the floor on dry pavement. I was surprised by that but what I didn't see was anything at a steady speed as the SG-II is showing on a FEH and there's no good reason for that. Punching it 40mph causes a downshift but generates no rear wheel torque.

Pick up a brochure some time and you'll see the so-called Intelligent 4WD is available on the FE/FEH, the same system.

Even if a FEH 4WD is programed differently as you claim, there'd have to be a major difference in MPG between a FEH 4WD and FEH FWD as 4WD uses more power.
 
  #48  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Originally Posted by wptski
Yes, from what I've read, I expected to see only rear wheel torque only with the pedal to the floor on dry pavement. I was surprised by that but what I didn't see was anything at a steady speed as the SG-II is showing on a FEH and there's no good reason for that. Punching it 40mph causes a downshift but generates no rear wheel torque.

Pick up a brochure some time and you'll see the so-called Intelligent 4WD is available on the FE/FEH, the same system.

Even if a FEH 4WD is programed differently as you claim, there'd have to be a major difference in MPG between a FEH 4WD and FEH FWD as 4WD uses more power.
The difference is known and reported. About 2-4MPG. Thats what the window sticker says... thats what an admittedly somewhat cursory examination of posts here says. Calling that "major" depends on ones frame of reference... its about 10% or so, I certainly don't call it insignificant.

Some of that is weight, some probably that the 4WD sits a bit higher, some the system itself.

I don't see why the fact that it costs a certain amount of MPG makes it "so-called intelligent" or not. Its a system....period. Lets be honest, they call it 4WD on the Fords, AWD on the Mercury's.... its all marketing folks!

It will have trade offs. People who don't want it don't have to have it, its why they make both.
 
  #49  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Originally Posted by TeeSter
The difference is known and reported. About 2-4MPG. Thats what the window sticker says... thats what an admittedly somewhat cursory examination of posts here says. Calling that "major" depends on ones frame of reference... its about 10% or so, I certainly don't call it insignificant.

Some of that is weight, some probably that the 4WD sits a bit higher, some the system itself.

I don't see why the fact that it costs a certain amount of MPG makes it "so-called intelligent" or not. Its a system....period. Lets be honest, they call it 4WD on the Fords, AWD on the Mercury's.... its all marketing folks!

It will have trade offs. People who don't want it don't have to have it, its why they make both.
Frankly, I don't understand why the 4WD/AWD doesn't seem to work as described in articles I've read, meaning rear wheel torque with no wheel slippage apparent. I believe why they refer to it as "intelligent' is because it requires no user input!

From what I read in this forum and others, 2-4 MPG is major to some people. I wonder how much MPG would improve if AWD was disabled?? All that would be needed is to pull the F-18 10A fuse on a FEH!
 
  #50  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II

Originally Posted by wptski
Frankly, I don't understand why the 4WD/AWD doesn't seem to work as described in articles I've read, meaning rear wheel torque with no wheel slippage apparent. I believe why they refer to it as "intelligent' is because it requires no user input!

From what I read in this forum and others, 2-4 MPG is major to some people. I wonder how much MPG would improve if AWD was disabled?? All that would be needed is to pull the F-18 10A fuse on a FEH!
Wow! You may have just provided a very important tip to 4WD FEH/MMH owners, such as myself. I could disconnect the 4WD for the summer (no snow/ice etc) by taking out a fuse, and pick up 2-4 MPG. That would be great! Thank You. BUT - before I do that, does anyone here know of some reason why I should not take out that fuse when 4WD not needed? Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
 


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