Hello,
I hope this isn't an unnecessary post, but from the posts I've searched I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer:
Does it matter whether I'm using Honda's brake pads or some other brand? And would my brake pads be worn out impact my regenerative breaking and FE? (my car doesn't seem to regenerate the battery as quickly as it used to...running on no assistance a good portion of the time)



And how do these from Advanced Auto parts look?


Akebono Ultra Premium Ceramic Disc Brake Pad Kit
Wagner ThermoQuiet® Brake Pad Set
Wearever Gold Brake Pads - Front

 

It shouldn't matter if you are using OEM Honda pads or after market pads. With every car I've owned before the hybrids, I've gone to after markets when the time came to replace them and I've generally been more happy with the after markets than the OEMs.

That being said, I'm a little paranoid to have anyone work on my brake systems other than someone trained to work on Honda (or Ford) hybrid systems. If I ever need to replace the pads on my HCH, I'll take it to Honda and let them do it (although I'm hoping to never replace the pads on either car).

Do you need to replace the pads already?

 

Well, I'm a little over 60k and as far as I can tell they're working fine. I went to the dealer a few months ago and they still had decent life in them (but haven't gotten them checked more recently). I was only thinking of replacing them because it seemed 'about time' and also because I felt that my battery wasn't charging as quickly through regenerative braking. But maybe I'm wrong and it's not directly related to the pads?

 

The regenerative braking doesn't use the friction (traditional) brake system at all. Instead, it uses the same electric motor that gives you assist as a generator. When acting as a generator, the resistance from the motor slows you down and turns your momentum into electricity.

I try to brake earlier in the HCH and use less pressure than I would in a regular car (obviously this depends on traffic). I don't really know how much of my braking is regenerative vs. friciton, but I'm hopefull that it's more than 50%. If that's the case, I think my pads should easily last the 100,000 miles that I will own the car.

Regarding your battery not charging as quickly, in high temps (or low temps), the battery's capacity to accept charge decreases. Maybe that's what you're experiencing? I know from the other post that you've been having battery crashes so that might be a factor too. BTW, I didn't mean to come off like I was jumping on you in that other thread--I was just trying to get you to post your experiences in one of the battery recal threads since this is an issue that Honda needs to pay attention to.

 

Totally understand, no need for the apology. Thanks for the insight.

 

I think kristian has nailed this very well. If you're also having issues with the battery pack then I would expect that this is at the root of your concerns about the regenerative braking behavior. Brake pad life is generally much longer than on conventional cars. I've read reports of Prius' in taxi service getting huge miles out of their brake pads.

One other thing I find with the regenerative braking feature is the way you can "modulate" how much you get by how you drive and brake. I see distinct 3 levels of regeneration:

1. Simply lifting off the gas and I will get 2-4 bars
2. Gently apply pressure to the brake pedal and I will get from 4-6+ bars (I don't think the actual brakes are being applied yet but the control system gets the message that you really want to slow down).
3. Press harder and I get full bars until speed drops below 10-15 mph.

I often use this range of choices, as conditions allow. I also use the "S" shift position on downhill grades, unless I'm already topping off at 7-8 bars on the SOC. Remember you lose all regenerative braking at 8 bars of SOC which can happen as you descend a long grade. You then realize how much more pedal pressure is needed to stop and this can be a bit worrisome if you are not expecting it to happen.

Cheers,

Roger

 

Hybrid Civic brake pads tend to last a long time for 2 reasons. One: the regen braking takes some load off the braking system. Two: hybrid owners tend to be very light on the brakes, realizing that braking often equals mis-estimating the amount of energy needed to roll to the next stop. Obviously you need to use the brakes once in a while , but heavy, repeated braking typically means you are wasting gas.

The HCHII brake pads start at around 10mm and I believe service limit is 1mm, but I would not personally go any lower than 2~3mm. Also, your call, but for the difference in price, and considering the infrequency of changes, I would stick with Honda brake pads, just to ensure compatibility.

 

I would check the prices at honda, likely to be double , but again you don't change it but every few years, if you do go aftermarket ,make sure the pad has no metallic in it , you have to ask,its can be metallic or semi metallic pads vs composite pads , that means its has tiny bits of metal in the shoes and it drags at coasting, you can see the difference just spinning axels w/no tire on very hard to spin,that normal with metallic pads, to get the extra performance /last longer of metallic pad its cost you a few h.p

 

Good post. This mirrors my experience and what I do as well. I'm at 65,000 miles and still have significant life left in the pads.

 

I've check my sister in laws HCH II with 50K miles pads because of excessive squealling (turned to be a rock stuck in the shield rubbing against the rotor), and the pads looked pretty darn near new. Regenerative braking greatly reduces pad wear unless you are jumping on the brakes hard all the time, which forces the physical brakes to work over the regenerative braking (try it, jump on the brakes hard and notice the minimal recharge). Not a very good hypermiling technique.

As for a theory on replacing your pads, I would be concerned about straying too far from factory pads because of the regen to friction switchover point.

Here's my theory: Get a grippier aftermarket pad, and when the ECU blends from regen to friction brakes from 15-0 mph, you will feel a sudden increase in braking. Switch to a less grippy pad, and the opposite will occur. Honda calibrated the changeover point and I don't know if the ECU has anyway to adapt to changes in friction levels. (be a great question for a honda hybrid engineer).

Also, Honda pads are honestly not much more than aftermarket in my past experience with prior changouts, just ask for a discount at the honda parts counter and don't pay retail. I've also never had squealing issues with honda pads vs. aftermarket ones insistently squealing, even after puting stop squeak goo on the backs of them. I've done both aftermarket and Honda pads, and its my opinion that its worth the few dollars more to go with the Honda ones.