i am personally curious about what sort of strain stopping and starting the engine so often does to the condition of the engine itself and the starter. i've read that the hybrid batteries in my hch are used to start the engine and that the starter is used purely for emergency purposes.

any information; greatly appreciated.

 

My understanding is that the HCH at least uses a "integrated starter generator" device to start the engine, which is powered by the Hybrid battery system.

This system replaced the traditional "alternator/starter" configuration.

I suppose the only system taxed is the ISG device itself, which is warrantied.

 

Honda's IMA system normally uses the same motor that is used in the hybrid system to start the engine. The motor is directly coupled to the engine shaft.
When you start a hybrid car you are spinning the engine shaft directly.

Traditional cars have large gear that is part of a flywheel, a starter motor, one way bearing connected to a smaller gear that is activated by a solonoid.
(Lots of mechanical parts to activate a traditoinal starting system)

There is alot more parts to wear out under repeated use of a conventional starter versus a hybrid system.

The only other possability I can think of is engine lubrication, as all lubrication stops as the motor quits turning.
Again, I don't think this is an issue given the short "off" duration.

The hybrid also has a conventional starting system in case of IMA failure or only certain conditions and is not normally used. I don't think Auto Stop will even function if it is neccessary to use the conventional starter.

 

Well he is correct about how IMA works and the fact that the traditional starter is there for "emergency" purposes only. I remain confused about the need for a starter for emergency purposes, but.. Although as a Prius driver I don't admit to fully understanding IMA other than knowing that the configuration of an IMA powered vehicle is very different, and frankly much more more akin to a standard vehicle, I do know that neither Honda or Toyota would design a system which would significantly increase the wear associated with start/stop cycles of an engine without taking that into question as they designed these power systems.

I know for a fact that the Toyota THS and HSD systems basically pre-lubricate the engine before ignition begins. Also, the electric motors spin up the engine to a much higher rpm before ignition is engaged than a traditional starter motor. A traditional starter motor gets an engine started somewhere around 100 rpm, depending on design. That usually means that the oil pump has had no time to lubricate the engine, and lubrication actually starts a few seconds after ignition begins. IMA and HSD all spin up the engines to a much higher rpm. I've hear that it is about 1000 RPM, by that speed the oil pump has fully charged the engine with lubricant and around that time the computer system commands ignition to start. This all happens in a matter of fractions of seconds.

Now, if one of the more technical folks on the board would comment, I would feel much better about what I have shared.

 

thinking myself to be somewhat technically minded, i would say that i understand what is said but lack the proper words to add anything worthwhile intellectuality speaking.

my mindset stems from home computer users in the sense that, you have the users who turn off their systems every night and swear that their electrical costs have gone down and the life of their systems has gone up; and you have the bubbas that leave them on for their entire lives and say the exact same thing.

this relates to the mashing of the a/c button when going down hills and the turning of the defroster off during the colder months to achieve an auto stop at a light as well as other concerns.

i do agree that honda would research such wear and tear on their newfound power systems and i am not worried as i do believe this would be covered under warranty as well.

 

A question about start/stop wear and tear is a great question. And in reality it is a concern that has been around since the first ICEs were invented. Honda and Toyota engineers knew that no hybrid system would work if they couldn't address the start stop wear, and the solution is remarkably the same even though the two different hybrid systems are fundamentally very different in execution.

The wear of starts and stops, over the life of an engine in a conventional power train is only really noticeable toward the end of the useable life of the vehicle, however most companies have technology in place which limits the full extent of possible start/stop wear. Notably, the oil that remains in the filter when the vehicle is turned off is usually the first oil to hit the engine when the oil pump begins to pressurize the system. And that quantity of oil differs greatly from vehicle to vehicle. I would estimate that depending on filter size, placement and such, it could be as much as a quart and as little as a few ounces of oil that hits the engine first from the oil filter. I know that on my old car when I changed my oil, it would take a couple of seconds of running to eliminate the head clatter. That was because the oil in the filter was the first to hit the head of the engine. Since the filter was new the oil pump was having to pump oil into the filter and then on into the vehicle. As such there was an extended period of time which the top of the engine didn't have a great deal of lubrication. I never liked that, but it was a reality of how that car was designed.