The module swapping method you describe is perpetual. If you pursue that method, it's something you repeat every 3 to 6 months or more. People think you can get reliable modules on ebay, which is rare. Countless stories of people going through the effort and then not having a functional pack when they're done.

I've seen 4 Prius transaxle failures. The only cost effective repair is installation of a salvage unit for $1400-1900.

Prius does not have a starter. The transaxle is a planetary gear set with both motor/generators (MG) inside. MG1 is smaller and attaches to the ICE. It provides HV to charge the battery, power the A/C or power MG2. It also starts the ICE. MG2 is the traction motor.

The Prius propulsion system is completely integrated unlike the bolt-on aspect of the IMA. They can't start without at least a minimally working hybrid battery.

 

Welp, Had a chat with her while picking her up from work last night (neighbors blocked in the van, and whereas I would have used it as a battering ram to extricate myself from the parking space, she took an Uber). I explained the advice you all have shared here, and she was really bummed out, but understanding. I asked her is it the 05 Civic you really want, or is it the hybrid that you really want to which she responded "both"

Apparently she's been in love with the concept for a while and is disappointed that Honda made a poorly designed vehicle. I think her worldview is shattered a bit. That said, I expressed the other options, buying a 2005 Civic standard gas, or buying another option like a Prius. There are many high mileage older Prius locally for around 2-3k, but she said she's driven one before and hated how they felt driving. Maybe that's just the Honda fangirl in her.

She wanted me to ask what you guys thought about the older Camry hybrids? I recognize there will be more maintenance and repairs on a hybrid versus a gas only, but I think she's got her head set on a hybrid for her next vehicle. Otherwise, I think she's going to make me put a brand new tranny in her 2001 civic, which I REALLY don't want to do since it will be twice the value of the car.

 

I'll give her that... I loved the way my 06 Civics drove, but they were a pain otherwise.

The Prius is a "driving appliance" more than a car. The "high-tech" feel of it helps offset it.

The Camry is a notably larger vehicle and will get notably lower gas mileage than her existing Civic. Furthermore, my experience with their batteries in AZ has been very bad as have all Generation 3 Toyota hybrids - they EAT their batteries. The last one I looked at with 144K miles needed something like 9 of the 34 modules replaced for something considered reliable for a DIY repair, let alone something one could offer a warranty on. It's not just an issue here in AZ, but it does seem to improve in very mild (cold) climates.

IMHO, on old cars their value is pretty much irrelevant. Most older Priuses with 150K+ miles would require a repair that exceeds their value when it comes to the cost of a dealer quoted battery price of $3500.

Here's how I look at it:

1) What does it cost to replace the vehicle compared to the repair?
2) Is the car historically reliable?
3) Can I anticipate getting 10 miles per dollar of repair cost?

1) too many people ignore the cost of vehicle replacement. When replacing with a used vehicle, the reliability is essentially unknown unless you make the rare find of an original owner that kept meticulous records.
2) While past results are not an indication of future performance, it's something to consider.
3) If I buy a $10,000 vehicle that goes 100,000 miles, I'm pretty darn happy with that. Keeping true to that, it breaks down to $0.10/mile. Thus any repair that doesn't exceed $0.10/mile is a worthwhile repair IF the car is reliable to the point that repairs aren't so frequent the time in the shop is a burden.

 

Hmm...now you have me curious to plug that formula into my 88 Accord and her 01 Civic.

The Civic has actually paid for itself in not at fault insurance repayments. Three accidents in almost a year, none of which were her fault, so the formula might not work there.

 

Just to give you a little better idea of my state of mind, it's probably worth mentioning my newest/lowest mileage car is a 2008 Prius with 152K miles...

 

IMA batteries last only 3-4 years on my car, and I only drive 6K miles a year in it. That low yearly mileage makes it hard to meet the criterion you state. At $2k/battery it would fail your test if the battery only lasts 3 years and just barely pass it if it lasts 4.

To the OP, your girlfriend has the "upside only" view of Hybrids. That is, "look what great mileage they get", or "it will be good for the environment". The problem is that the technologies used to achieve that are not particularly cost effective. Owning one will quickly enlighten a person to the more balanced view, that overall, most hybrids will cost more to own than a conventional car. If a big battery replacement was $500 or less the technology would be an economic win, but since they cost at least $2K, it isn't. The exception is probably the Prius, which if you put on enough miles quickly has low enough operating costs that a battery replacement will still leave it with lower operating costs. For that reason, locally the vast majority of taxis I see are Prius's.

If gas shoots up to $8/gallon the calculus would shift, but at $3/gallon (or less) that is how things stand.

 

 

Loving this thread! sub'd