Not always true... While resale can relate to a vehicle not being popular, or that there are too many of them on the market, it also has strong ties with the reliablility. You will notice that mentioned several times in the bottom 10.

Also, lets say you buy a Dodge Caravan for $28,000 and put 180,000 miles on it before trading. You may get 1500 for it. Or you could buy a Honda Oddessey for example for $28,000 and put 180,000 on it and get 4500 for it at trade, I would rather have the money from the Honda.

 

But from what I have seen it is more like spending $25,000 for a dodge to sell for $1,500 or spend $28,000 for a Honda to sell for $4,500. You lost the same amount on both, but the Honda is percieved to have a better resale because it is worth more in the end.

 

Not if the Dodge fails in 10 years and the Honda in 15 ;o)

 

I think you raise a good point. I've seen some VERY old Civics and Corrollas operating on the highway. But when it comes to vehicles broken-down on the side of the road, they're almost always GM products.

My general impression of a vehicle's lifespan (in my own personal driving experience at least) is this:

Toyota/Honda: Potentially forever, as long as you change the oil.
Ford trucks: Potentially forever, as long as you change the oil.
Ford cars: 4-5 years (with frequent maintenance)
Dodge: 4-5 years
GM cars (non-Pontiac): 4-5 years (with frequent maintenance)
GM (Pontiac): 1-2 years (with very expensive, almost continuous maintenance)

So when it comes to depreciation, you have to face the idea that some carmakers just don't care about quality and will just waive the American flag around to get gullible Red State denizens to buy their shoddy products.

 

My 1989 Ford Escort went 7 years and 90,000 urban stop-and-start miles with little beyond oil changes until it was hit and totaled. Before that I had an AMC/Renault Encore that got me through college with no problems other than the unfortunate rusting all cars in the Midwest developed over eight plus years of hard winters back then.

Personally I put your post in the category of American car bashing, a favorite but unfortunate and destructive pasttime of many in and out of the media.

Oh, BTW, would you like to talk about the recent precipitous decline in Toyota quality, secret Japanese recalls, Japanese overstating of horsepower, or the personal experiences of my family including a Honda and a Toyota that both had to be essentially tossed after less than three years because they were total junk? Or are those things you plan to ignore to prove that Japanes cars are better?

Another point, There was a joint American-Japanese venture a few years back (Chrysler-Mitsubishi, Diamond Star). They made identical cars on the same American assembly line using the same workers at the same plant. Some days they put a Japanese badge on the cars; other days they put an American badge on the cars. The Japanese cars were consistently rated higher and had fewer defects and problems.

Do you realistically think that is the case, or do you think that the perception was the "Japanese" cars were better?

After that particular study, mirrored by reports in Consumer Reports over the years where they bash the American version and praise the Japanese version of various cars my conclusion is the superiority of Japanses product today is 98% perception, 2% reality.

Finally, Mercury is now the number two company for new car quality based on reported defects in the (I believe) first six months beating out Toyota, Honda and many other Japanese nameplates. That rather badly undercuts supposed Japanese superiority as well.

Am I POed?

You bet your behind, but living in the poorest city in America in no small part because stuff like most of your post passes for unquestioned "reality" makes one more than a bit upset. Come to Cleveland or Detroit or Dayton or any other American car manufacturing cities and see what "Buy Japanese" has done to us before you post that buying an American product is just for "gullible Red State denizens to buy their shoddy products".

Unlike you I happen to care about my fellow Americans more than a bit.

 

Just an FYI: there have ben many, MANY times as a child and as a teen that I've been stranded by these "wonderful" American vehicles. My opinion of American craftsmanship is from real-world, hands-on experience. American cars suck and if I won one in a lottery, I'd sell it for something Japanese.

-- Ford F150: When I was a kid, my dad was allowed to take a company truck home to drive for personal use. These pieces of crap blew a clutch every 10,000 miles. I vividly remember being stranded with dad on the side of the road every 4-5 months because the clutch gave out.
-- Pontiac Fiero: My first driving experience. The electrical system was so bad that when dad (or I) would shut the engine off, there was a real chance that it would simply not restart and would have to be towed in for repair. It also blew fuses nearly every day. The car was junked with payments still owed.
-- Pontiac Grand Prix: It had a problem with the brakes. At random intervals, the brake pedal would just get rigid and I would sail right through an intersection. This car was junked before 70k.
-- Pontiac Grand Am: The car blew alternators at regular intervals, leaving me stranded on the side of the road. This car was junked before 70k.
-- Ford Escort: I worked for a roofing company once and it had one of these in their fleet. The car lasted EXACTLY 37k before the engine blew (with 2 years of payments remaining!)
-- Chevy Cavalier: It blew water pumps and thermostats. It ran hot all the time for no apparent reason. Turning on the heat in the middle of summer just to get the temperature gauge back to the middle was no pleasure!

So you see, I have my reasons.

Oh, it's also you RED STATE folk that seem to sneer at the idea of workers being paid a living wage. It's your leaders, not mine, that have off-shored all the labor and talent in this country, which is why we're going to be a second-rate world power in the next ten years or so. I have exactly ZERO aquaintences whose income has risen under GW Bush, but when we had Clinton to kick around, we had peace, prosperity, and the hope of living out the American Dream.

 

American-owned car companies have tended towards lobbying to change the rules rather than improve their vehicles, so they deserve the bad status they've earned.

As for American jobs, American-owned doesn't mean anything. Toyota pays more US employees than Ford does. Just because Ford has the US symbol doesn't mean they give a crap about US workers. But they're hoping you assume that as they outsource... and you appear to.

 

I get sick of people throwing the "you are American you should buy American" crap down my throught. First off most Jap cars are built by AMERICANS here in the US. Most American cars are built in Cananda or Mexico. So to me it is a toss up as to which economy we are really supporting. I am glad the Mercury is doing better, Hyundai is certainly doing better, but I am not going to inveest my hard erned dollars into a car or truck just because it is doing better. It takes several years to stay on top with quality to change the fact that American cars resale value sucks at best. If you want to loose your money to support Mexican made stuff that is fine, and that is your right! I on the other hand like to trade my cars every 2 years and I always glad that my Japanees cars have held their value.

I have also walked in the shoes of American car owners. Time and time again I had them in the shop under 100,000 miles and after my 4th one I said no more. Now I have never been stranded or have to worry if my car is going to make it to work.

I also find it funny that the same people that yell buy American shop at Walmart.

 

Those cars were the Mitsu Eclipse and the Plymoth Laser, and they were all cr@p. None of those cars deserved a good rating, they were little rattle buckets that blew engines, and smoked more than a North Carolina Teenager. And to say that the only diference was the badge on them was not enitirely true, the plymoth version was typically a more stripped down less option version, while the mitsu version had more amminities. The Plymoth version was only available as FWD, while the mitsu version was either FWD or AWD. That comparison was not exactly apples to apples. I suspect the reports were unfairly compairing the amminities and calling them quality.

 

I agree. Mitsu is no where up to the standards of Toyota or Honda. I have a good frind that had a 93 and then a 95 Eclipse. While they looked nice at the time they were crap. The 95 was worse than the 93.