Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
#1
03-31-2008, 04:22 PM
Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
Bashin, who is sightless, is working with the National Federation of the Blind to push legislation that could eventually require installation of "noise emitting" devices on hybrids and other vehicles that run at least part of the time on electric power.
That prospect doesn't sit well with some car owners. The message board at greenhybrid.com, a website for hybrid enthusiasts, has seen lively debates over the issue. In one recent post, a Toyota Camry hybrid owner wrote that "the world around us is getting louder and along come hybrids and WHAM! They get blasted by a group claiming they are too quiet."
That prospect doesn't sit well with some car owners. The message board at greenhybrid.com, a website for hybrid enthusiasts, has seen lively debates over the issue. In one recent post, a Toyota Camry hybrid owner wrote that "the world around us is getting louder and along come hybrids and WHAM! They get blasted by a group claiming they are too quiet."
#2
03-31-2008, 05:45 PM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
I sent a note to the writer that industry came back with a recommendation for an electronic network that would handle not only the needs of the blind but car drivers too.
Bob Wilson
Originally Posted by myself
It came out in the news reports from the hearings on the bill. BTW, you may have seen the recent articles about 'smart GPS' systems. This is the same idea.
Every car would have a GPS receiver and a small transmitter saying who they are, where they are and where they are going. A receiver listening to these transmissions could quickly tell who is coming from what direction. This is the verge of autonomous traffic where perfect knowledge of the traffic leads to predictive routing and congestion avoidance. A similar, battery operated unit for the blind would alert the drivers (as well as the blind) of the traffic around them.
But if we simply use noise makers, there will be a lot of problems especially for the blind. Any system that does not return value to the car owner will be doomed because they won't buy them to retrofit to existing cars or maintain them. Trying to get noise makers enforced . . . well we might as well assign a cop to each blind person as their personal escort. I'm not trying to be cute but I sorry if the blind can't see that problem with noise makers.
It is like the old story of trying to "Bell the Cat" . . . a perfect solution must be practical as the mice soon discovered.
Every car would have a GPS receiver and a small transmitter saying who they are, where they are and where they are going. A receiver listening to these transmissions could quickly tell who is coming from what direction. This is the verge of autonomous traffic where perfect knowledge of the traffic leads to predictive routing and congestion avoidance. A similar, battery operated unit for the blind would alert the drivers (as well as the blind) of the traffic around them.
But if we simply use noise makers, there will be a lot of problems especially for the blind. Any system that does not return value to the car owner will be doomed because they won't buy them to retrofit to existing cars or maintain them. Trying to get noise makers enforced . . . well we might as well assign a cop to each blind person as their personal escort. I'm not trying to be cute but I sorry if the blind can't see that problem with noise makers.
It is like the old story of trying to "Bell the Cat" . . . a perfect solution must be practical as the mice soon discovered.
#3
04-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
Recently, a Toyota Camry Hybrid taxi rolled up behind me while I was standing on a sidewalk with my back to the traffic in downtown Toronto. By "rolled up", I might as well have said, "snuck up". The sound of grit under tire was the only sound cue to my ears that something was moving behind me, and it's something I would have associated with a bicycle or a dolly. This had the affect of surprising me, and giving me the distinct apprehension of a danger that was unrealized.
It's really sad to see hybrid enthusiasts fail to recognize a real safety issue that involves their vehicles.
Bob, do you really think that every person and animal should come equipped with GPS receiver equipment? Just put a noisemaker on the flywheel or something. Unless there's public consultation, it's not up to us to create the solution.
It's really sad to see hybrid enthusiasts fail to recognize a real safety issue that involves their vehicles.
Bob, do you really think that every person and animal should come equipped with GPS receiver equipment? Just put a noisemaker on the flywheel or something. Unless there's public consultation, it's not up to us to create the solution.
#4
04-13-2008, 10:40 PM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
- 2006 fatal pedestrian accidents: 4,784
- 1998 fatal pedestrian accidents: 5,228
How do you explain the decrease in pedestrian accident rates as more and more hybrid cars show up in traffic? In fact, you can't and this proposed USA legislation is fatally flawed because it forces one and only one solution to be considered. It doesn't concentrated on pedestrian and cyclist safety but mandates "diesel friendly" noise makers . . . hummmm, the very thing a diesel advocate would want, yes?
No, the right answer is to go after the true goals and objectives, pedestrian and vehicular accidents and not let the mote of hybrid quiet be another red herring. The problem is much larger than 2% of the hybrid cars rolling on the streets.
Bob Wilson
#5
04-14-2008, 06:44 AM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
Absolutely, I do believe that motor vehicles should carry some minimum level of sound. It is for the self-defence of others to have the chance to notice this kind of hazard. Large vehicles have to sound an alert when they are in reverse gear, so this isn't something without precedent. In the same vein, I do believe in rigourous enforcement of speed limits on roads, not for the technical, social, statistical or economic reasons but because the racer has broken the covenant of an understood safety field: There may be no harm in racing on an empty road, but their speed has removed the available reaction & prevention of unforeseen events, like a child suddenly chasing a ball across the road.
I think that the statistics are beside the point. It's about doing what's right for the collective good. You build accessibility into public spaces, not because there are a lot of visitors with wheelchairs. You do it because an inclusive civilization is a dignified, respectful, and therefore a healthier civilization.
I think that the statistics are beside the point. It's about doing what's right for the collective good. You build accessibility into public spaces, not because there are a lot of visitors with wheelchairs. You do it because an inclusive civilization is a dignified, respectful, and therefore a healthier civilization.
#6
04-14-2008, 07:04 AM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
With respect, I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. If our hybrids went down the street and announced, "BLIND PEOPLE I AM NOT BURNING ANY GAS," the statistics suggest it would have no effect . . . except to sell more hybrids as the price of gas goes up. Too many pedestrians and cyclists are killed today with the existing, noise making vehicles.
Understand that any form of artificial "sound" will quickly be known as the "I AM NOT BURNING ANY GAS" signal. Meanwhile, more pedestrian and cyclist blood will continue to stain the streets because a mandated, ineffective solution that "sounds nice" was forced through law, not science and engineering.
Bob Wilson
Understand that any form of artificial "sound" will quickly be known as the "I AM NOT BURNING ANY GAS" signal. Meanwhile, more pedestrian and cyclist blood will continue to stain the streets because a mandated, ineffective solution that "sounds nice" was forced through law, not science and engineering.
Bob Wilson
Last edited by bwilson4web; 04-14-2008 at 07:07 AM.
#9
04-17-2008, 05:17 AM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
As funny as that may be (ringtone jingles), I can see that happening in Japan. The cute and friendly are selling points there, particularly in design prototypesn
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-To...With-Mall.aspx
Back to the topic, here is another article with some more things to say:
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Ar...destrians.aspx
Hybrid vehicles have a forward-thinking image. The stuff that people should be using but don't wanna. Eating granola instead of candy bars. Wouldn't it make sense, then, to be proactive about safety concerns instead of reactive? In other words, think strategically and support a solution before the proof arrives and then suffer the public scorn as apathetic people killers. Doubly negative for the ones who disable Daytime Running Lights.
It stupefies me to see what I perceive as a selfish and arrogant attitude within the hybrid culture. It's like, "I got a hybrid car. Don't you dare tell me about how it can be a problem." This is not true of everyone, of course, but it can be hypocritical when hybrid owners encourage others to have an open mind.
In Japan, the usual old ways of selling cars like showrooms and TV ads are no longer working. Youngsters are choosing to spend on mobile phones and laptops than on cars, Toyota officials say.
Back to the topic, here is another article with some more things to say:
Preliminary results of an ongoing study at the University of California-Riverside have indicated the cars pose some risk. The study found that hybrids operating at slow speeds must be 40 percent closer to pedestrians than combustion-engine vehicles before they make enough noise for their location to be detected.
Hybrid vehicles have a forward-thinking image. The stuff that people should be using but don't wanna. Eating granola instead of candy bars. Wouldn't it make sense, then, to be proactive about safety concerns instead of reactive? In other words, think strategically and support a solution before the proof arrives and then suffer the public scorn as apathetic people killers. Doubly negative for the ones who disable Daytime Running Lights.
It stupefies me to see what I perceive as a selfish and arrogant attitude within the hybrid culture. It's like, "I got a hybrid car. Don't you dare tell me about how it can be a problem." This is not true of everyone, of course, but it can be hypocritical when hybrid owners encourage others to have an open mind.
#10
04-17-2008, 06:17 AM
Re: Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
Hi,
Does Canada have accident statistics like this:
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
http://www.nhtsa.gov/
The USA National Highway Transportation Safety Administration web site has a search engine and entering "pedestrian accident" revealed some interesting articles:
A strong argument, based upon the second study, would require the blind to wear a half-top, motorcycle or bicycle helmet when walking. They might still be injured but the helmet would greatly increase their survival rate regardless of the vehicle involved in the accident. A blind safety helmet could include electronic enhancements to extend their hearing range and detect oncoming traffic. So along with their white cane, a white safety helmet, possibly with a super-bright, flashing, LED, would improve their outcome while walking.
The blind may suffer from a narrow understanding of acceptable solutions . . . when all you have is a hammer, all problems resemble a nail. Reduced to touch and hearing, it is natural that they would think adding sound solves the problem. Yet they are also being struck by ordinary vehicles today. It would be a tragedy if the last thing a dead pedestrian heard was faux engine noise, which looks to be the only solution proposed by the blind.
Effective problem solution requires looking at all aspects of the problem. Given the 5,000 pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities per year, we need effective solutions, not something that just sounds nice but has no measurable effect.
Bob Wilson
Does Canada have accident statistics like this:
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
http://www.nhtsa.gov/
The USA National Highway Transportation Safety Administration web site has a search engine and entering "pedestrian accident" revealed some interesting articles:
- ASSESSMENT OF VEHICLE RELATED PEDESTRIAN SAFETY - "Against the background of upcoming intelligent safety systems, which also will have an impact on passive safety in general and on pedestrian safety in particular, all relevant technical measures have to be quantified in a combined way in order to find most effective solutions. . . ."
- INTRODUCTION OF PEDESTRIAN HEAD PROTECTION PERFORMANCE TEST IN J-NCAP - "In Japan, pedestrian accidents account for about 30% of traffic accident mortality. Head injuries are 60% of the cause of death in pedestrian accidents. Therefore, the pedestrian head protection performance test using adult and child head impactors has been conducted in J-NCAP since 2003. . . ."
- DOT HS 809 456 Pedestrian Roadway Fatalities - ". . . Almost 175,000 pedestrians died in all motor vehicle crashes with more than 162,000 pedestrians killed in single vehicle crashes between 1975 and 2000. Pedestrian fatalities from all crashes reached a low of 4,763 fatalities in 2000. In 2001, pedestrian fatalities slightly increased to 4,882. However, in 2001, pedestrian fatalities accounted for about 12 percent of all fatalities and 85 percent of all non-occupant fatalities in motor vehicle crashes. Pedestrian fatalities in single vehicle crashes accounted for over 90 percent of the pedestrian fatalities from all fatal motor vehicle crashes. With such a high percentage of pedestrian fatalities from single vehicle crashes, this report was written to provide insight into the possible causes for these pedestrian fatalities. . . .
- many more interesting reports . . .
A strong argument, based upon the second study, would require the blind to wear a half-top, motorcycle or bicycle helmet when walking. They might still be injured but the helmet would greatly increase their survival rate regardless of the vehicle involved in the accident. A blind safety helmet could include electronic enhancements to extend their hearing range and detect oncoming traffic. So along with their white cane, a white safety helmet, possibly with a super-bright, flashing, LED, would improve their outcome while walking.
The blind may suffer from a narrow understanding of acceptable solutions . . . when all you have is a hammer, all problems resemble a nail. Reduced to touch and hearing, it is natural that they would think adding sound solves the problem. Yet they are also being struck by ordinary vehicles today. It would be a tragedy if the last thing a dead pedestrian heard was faux engine noise, which looks to be the only solution proposed by the blind.
Effective problem solution requires looking at all aspects of the problem. Given the 5,000 pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities per year, we need effective solutions, not something that just sounds nice but has no measurable effect.
Bob Wilson
