After a minute or two of looking at the database, I have two things to add. First, there are still only 6 VUEs in the database. Second, the Ford Escape 2WD is getting 32 mpg on average- which is very respectable for any car, let alone an SUV. Like I said- my comments are about most SUVs- not all of them.

 

Andrew and Leah

As an HCH driver (not as a MOD -speaking in non-moderator/regular member tone-) I object to the term "mild" being used to describe the HCH. Last time I checked the HCH MT as a group was one of the highest mileage cars you could purchase according to our database. Yep, just double checked, the only car with higher MPG is the Insight which uses the same IMA technology.

As you have pointed out quite a lot of thought/engineering went into the design of the Insight and to lesser degree the Civic Hybrid.

Anybody calling my car "mild" is going to get an earfull.

PS I don't want any engineers spouting unrealistic EPA figures or technical mumbo jumbo about how much better HSD is than IMA. Both systems are great but one is not nearly enough better than the other to be calling one "full" and the other one "mild" IMHO.

 

lakedude- I actually agree with you completely and get irked if I think someone is using the 'mild' hybrid excuse to argue that the Prius, for instance, is better than the HCH. That's why I said it was only 'technically' a mild hybrid, and only for the purposes of arguing that some technologies being denigrated as 'mild' are actually quite good, and I used my HCH as an example of just how good it could be. I think the 'mild' vs. 'full' hybrid distinction is fairly unimportant, because I believe that it is the end result (total fuel efficiency) that counts the most rather than the technology involved. Driving a hybrid SUV, for instance, instead of a passenger car that isn't a hybrid but which gets gas mileage that's 60% better would be the wrong choice, I believe.

But sometimes there are other considerations- encouraging more hybrid alternatives on the market and better market saturation, accessibility, and public knowledge about and support of hybrid technology is going to lead to better fuel efficiency in the long run. That's why I would prefer someone use hybrid technology that might be 'mild' like the ones in some of the SUVs even if the fuel savings aren't tremendously great, if the alternate choice would have been some other SUV with worse or even equivalent mileage. A surge in such cars promotes hybrids and makes them more common, and therefore more acceptable.

 

I think you are beating up a strawman. One of the things I like about GreenHybrid.com has been the free and open discussion of various hybrids that concentrate on the facts and data. This is critical to sharing what works, doesn't work and sometimes, borrowing ideas. But I noticed mention of my profession, engineering, the very people who made any of these hybrids, EVs and even autos and the fuels they run on possible.

I belong to the school of "the right tool for the right job." Each hybrid architecture has characteristics that determine performance in different driving scenarios. Understanding these differences and mapping them to the requirements is critical in the purchase and later, vital if we are going to mitigate performance in marginal cases (aka., Prius at speeds of +70 mph, IMA in bumper-to-bumper, and GM without a contractor tool kit.)

So when someone comes looking for a hybrid solution, I ask 'what are you going to use it for?' I try to point out that the Honda IMA systems have advantages in high-speed traffic; the HSD/Ford systems have advantages in urban driving; and if someone wants to tow heavy loads or power a construction site, the GM solutions are good.

There is no "best" but simply trying to match the hybrid to the mission. The ultimate test is what happens in the individual's usage. Are they using "the right tool for the right job?" As for "who's hybrid is best," that is unimportant without the requirements. And if you don't like an engineer's point of view, try using a lawyer to fix or make your vehicle. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

You certainly have a high opinion of yourself and your profession. We all appreciate a well designed and engineered product and certainly engineers are a key part getting anything like a hybrid to market but thousands of key non-engineers play their part as well.

We both know that engineers neither make or fix vehicles. Line workers make em and mechanics/techs (like me) fix em.

PS sorry for getting OT on this thread....

 

Actually, my projects involve teams ranging from procurement through on-site technicians and I've always appreciated and recognized their efforts. But my lab time has been critical to our success. BTW, please don't tell my Prius, it would be so disappointed to learn an engineer had been working on it. <grins>

I agree, we need to head back to the subject. I'm still interested in what makes and models are available from whom. Sad to say, I may be restricted to corporate relationship, rental companies.

Bob Wilson