Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
#1
04-21-2006, 02:14 PM
Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
Nissan Motor Co., the last of Japan's biggest carmakers to sell a hybrid vehicle in the U.S., will offer its gasoline-electric Altima model only in the northeastern U.S. and California. The 2007 model will be available early next year in California, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont, Rhode Island, Maine and New Jersey, Nissan said in a statement. Sales are being limited to states that have adopted versions of California's so-called zero-emissions vehicle mandate, which requires the largest automakers to offer hybrids, spokesman Kurt Von Zumwalt said.
#2
04-24-2006, 11:32 AM
Re: Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
Welcome, Nissan, to the US hybrid market! I'm not going to quibble with the state-by-state limitations or the implications in this article that the hybrid market is not too hot anymore. More hybrid options in the vehicle fleet are necessarily a good thing, IMO.
However, this state-by-state availability reminds me of an issue I had when I bought my HCH. I wanted a P-ZEV but all they would sell me was a ULEV, because I was buying the car in Illinois. You'd think that they could order me whatever version of the car I wanted if I was willing to pay and/or wait, but NO. As it turns out, there was no negotiation on this point; it was an absolute. The P-ZEV wasn't going to be sold in Illinois, they told me. In California, I do not think the ULEV would be available because of state law, emissions standards, etc.; it makes sense, and there's a reason they do it that way. But the other way around doesn't make any sense to me. Any thoughts?
However, this state-by-state availability reminds me of an issue I had when I bought my HCH. I wanted a P-ZEV but all they would sell me was a ULEV, because I was buying the car in Illinois. You'd think that they could order me whatever version of the car I wanted if I was willing to pay and/or wait, but NO. As it turns out, there was no negotiation on this point; it was an absolute. The P-ZEV wasn't going to be sold in Illinois, they told me. In California, I do not think the ULEV would be available because of state law, emissions standards, etc.; it makes sense, and there's a reason they do it that way. But the other way around doesn't make any sense to me. Any thoughts?
#3
04-29-2006, 09:54 AM
Emission Certification Tutorial (Re:Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 US States
Your Civic is a PZEV in every way except what Honda wants to warranty the emissions controls degradation to. Look at the 2006 emission test results (http://www.epa.gov/otaq/crttst.htm), the measured emissions for the the CA (California) and FA (Federal All Altitudes) Sales Areas are the same. This is confirmed by seeing the Tier II level they requested certification testing for (abbreviations explained at http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/veh-cer...t/05format.pdf) S2 (LEV 2 SULEV) for CA and B2 (Bin 2) for FA. These are both PZEV levels.
You have to understand that a PZEV vehicle emits SULEV levels of emissions at the tailpipe. What seperates them is their evaporative emissions, what the fuel system and materials of construction emit while the vehicle is not running. Without a regulatory mandate, as there is in California, Honda has no reason to open itself to possible emission recalls in the non-Green States.
You have to understand that a PZEV vehicle emits SULEV levels of emissions at the tailpipe. What seperates them is their evaporative emissions, what the fuel system and materials of construction emit while the vehicle is not running. Without a regulatory mandate, as there is in California, Honda has no reason to open itself to possible emission recalls in the non-Green States.
#4
05-01-2006, 08:38 AM
Re: Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
Buyhevs: I appreciate your response but I don't think I understand it. The first link you gave me didn't work and the second went to a chart, but I couldn't tell from the chart whether S2 and B2 were the same, different, PZEV, SULEV, French or Bohemian.
Basically, what I want to know about what you're saying is this: If the PZEV emits SULEV emissions at the tailpipe, then how can my HCH, which is rated a ULEV, not a SULEV, be a PZEV, to all intents and purposes? That doesn't make sense to me. I'd like to just take what you've said at face value, and feel that my car has emissions that are just as good as the ones sold in CA, but it seems to contradict what I thought I had been told. I poked around on the epa site you directed me to, and although I couldn't find quite the page you tried to direct me to, I did find this page:
http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-H...cHybrid-06.htm for the 2006 and
http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-H...cHybrid-05.htm for the 2005
which seems to say that the California models get a 9.5 out of 10 but the HCHs sold in the rest of the country get a 9 out of 10. Not a huge difference, I'll grant you, but some difference, and I'd like to have had the option to get the better version.
Basically, what I want to know about what you're saying is this: If the PZEV emits SULEV emissions at the tailpipe, then how can my HCH, which is rated a ULEV, not a SULEV, be a PZEV, to all intents and purposes? That doesn't make sense to me. I'd like to just take what you've said at face value, and feel that my car has emissions that are just as good as the ones sold in CA, but it seems to contradict what I thought I had been told. I poked around on the epa site you directed me to, and although I couldn't find quite the page you tried to direct me to, I did find this page:
http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-H...cHybrid-06.htm for the 2006 and
http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-H...cHybrid-05.htm for the 2005
which seems to say that the California models get a 9.5 out of 10 but the HCHs sold in the rest of the country get a 9 out of 10. Not a huge difference, I'll grant you, but some difference, and I'd like to have had the option to get the better version.
#5
05-02-2006, 06:17 AM
Re: Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
Leahbeetle,
>Link doesn't work
It was trying to include the final parenthesis. Try http://www.epa.gov/otaq/crttst.htm
And look under 2006
>but I couldn't tell from the chart whether S2 and B2 were the same, different, PZEV, SULEV, French or Bohemian
You can take my word for it, or research it yourself on the EPA and CARB websites.
>If the PZEV emits SULEV emissions at the tailpipe, then how can my HCH, which is rated a ULEV, not a SULEV, be a PZEV, to all intents and purposes?
You can see from the link above that the test results are the same for the CA and FA certification tests.
>9.5 out of 10 but the HCHs sold in the rest of the country get a 9 out of 10. Not a huge difference, I'll grant you, but some difference
The reason is what it was CERTIFIED to, not what it tested at. A ZEV in CA would be a 10, a vehicle CERTIFIED at PZEV would probably get a 9.5 in the 50 states.
>I'd like to have had the option to get the better version
But Honda doesn't have to take that option (of selling you a vehicle they'd have to warranty at the lower emission levels). It doesn't make financial sense for them to do that, as there is no ZEV/PZEV mandate in your state and you still bought the car; just as it doesn't make any sense for you to fly to California to buy a PZEV rated Civic. You can see from the test results above the its emissions are the same (CA vs. 50 State)
>Link doesn't work
It was trying to include the final parenthesis. Try http://www.epa.gov/otaq/crttst.htm
And look under 2006
>but I couldn't tell from the chart whether S2 and B2 were the same, different, PZEV, SULEV, French or Bohemian
You can take my word for it, or research it yourself on the EPA and CARB websites.
>If the PZEV emits SULEV emissions at the tailpipe, then how can my HCH, which is rated a ULEV, not a SULEV, be a PZEV, to all intents and purposes?
You can see from the link above that the test results are the same for the CA and FA certification tests.
>9.5 out of 10 but the HCHs sold in the rest of the country get a 9 out of 10. Not a huge difference, I'll grant you, but some difference
The reason is what it was CERTIFIED to, not what it tested at. A ZEV in CA would be a 10, a vehicle CERTIFIED at PZEV would probably get a 9.5 in the 50 states.
>I'd like to have had the option to get the better version
But Honda doesn't have to take that option (of selling you a vehicle they'd have to warranty at the lower emission levels). It doesn't make financial sense for them to do that, as there is no ZEV/PZEV mandate in your state and you still bought the car; just as it doesn't make any sense for you to fly to California to buy a PZEV rated Civic. You can see from the test results above the its emissions are the same (CA vs. 50 State)
#6
05-02-2006, 08:32 PM
Re: Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
I was hoping they would sell the Altima hybrid in my area. I like the new styling, but not the fuel economy. 
Too bad, they may lose me as a customer....might have to look at the Camry Hybrid.
Too bad, they may lose me as a customer....might have to look at the Camry Hybrid.
#7
05-05-2006, 02:32 PM
Re: Nissan to Sell Hybrid Altima in Only 8 U.S. States
I don't find it surprising that they're not going to go nationwide (at first) with this. I've seen car makers not offer certain options for one area that they do another, or even paint colors.
For example:
All Honda S2000s are produced from the same one plant in Japan. From start to finish the car is created there. However, the "GT" model (all options and a GT badge) is only available in Japan and Europe. You can get all the options here, just not as a "GT". Also, there is a different paint / interior selection depending on your location in the world. Some colors not available at all in certain areas.
It's paint. They're all painted in the same place. Why will they not ship an orange car here? Even if it's requested and the buyer will wait as long as it takes to get it here. Honda says "No.".
I don't think that has anything to do with the topic. Just thought I'd share (:
For example:
All Honda S2000s are produced from the same one plant in Japan. From start to finish the car is created there. However, the "GT" model (all options and a GT badge) is only available in Japan and Europe. You can get all the options here, just not as a "GT". Also, there is a different paint / interior selection depending on your location in the world. Some colors not available at all in certain areas.
It's paint. They're all painted in the same place. Why will they not ship an orange car here? Even if it's requested and the buyer will wait as long as it takes to get it here. Honda says "No.".
I don't think that has anything to do with the topic. Just thought I'd share (:
#8
05-12-2006, 11:17 PM
Why not Oregon and Washington?
Oregon and Washington recently adopted the California emissions standards. Although they don't fully take effect until 2010, I'm sure they'd sell plenty of them here, too.
Either they don't trust the emissions system enough, or they don't have a profit margin as high as the regular Altima... Although for the warranty, even though it's CA-certified, if it's sold in a non-CA-requirement state, they don't have to offer an extended emissions warranty. Like the Prius. Which makes me wonder if Oregon's recent adoption of the CA standards will retroactively give me the longer emissions warranty? (I'm sure to go over THAT warranty's mileage limit before 2010 anyway, though.)
Either they don't trust the emissions system enough, or they don't have a profit margin as high as the regular Altima... Although for the warranty, even though it's CA-certified, if it's sold in a non-CA-requirement state, they don't have to offer an extended emissions warranty. Like the Prius. Which makes me wonder if Oregon's recent adoption of the CA standards will retroactively give me the longer emissions warranty? (I'm sure to go over THAT warranty's mileage limit before 2010 anyway, though.)
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