Thanks to Wayne for opening his home, and his brain to me this weekend. With my knowledge of the FEH and Wanye's knowledge of Hybrids in general, it created a great synergy. Ford's Dearborn event provided something for everyone. I think just like the FEH, people got out of it, what they put into it. For us, there weren't enough hours in the day to discuss everything, but much ground was covered.

To our friends in Dearborn. Thank You SO MUCH for your warm welcome, enthusiasum, and optimism for great things in the near future. While I felt nearly an expert going into this experience, I walked away with even more knowledge, and renewed excitement over my Hybrid vehicle.

I can say with great confidence, that Ford has built a sturdy, robust, and efficient vehicle that is a wonderful long-term investment. This Hybrid will not let you down for many, many years to come. Without going into specifics, I can say it is possible it will out-last any other current Hybrid on the road.

Just to let you know, On Wayne's first drive in my 2WD FEH, he maintained 42.5 to 45.0 MPG for 350 miles going 55 MPH over the highway between Chicago and Dearborn... this is Prius territory folks, in a roomy, high profile, 4,000lb vehicle. ( The end result was 42.5, but would have been higher without a 20 minute stop for dinner that required a key-off and cool down, plus re-accel to highway speeds after. )

Thanks for a great time Wayne. I learned a bunch from this trip, and hope you did also.
-John
gpsman1
NE Colorado

 

Be on the look-out for an article in USA TODAY newspaper covering the Dearborn FEH event.

Reporters were taking names ( and photos ) of attendees Sunday for a possible story on Wednesday.

The Reporter was Sharon Carty so you can look for that byline... however I hope the headline is large enough to get your attention!

-John

 

Read with interest the brief discussion of fuel economy benefits of using L instead of D. Wanted to see if someone could post information about this subject based upon the Ford event.

Thanks.

 

It was discussed. It's pretty much what you feel is happening, just more intense simulated engine braking.... achieved with more regenerative braking.

As Tim mentioned, the shifter (like the accelerator and brake pedals) is a purely electronic control. There are no mechanical linkages to it so a shift between D and L is just sending different requests through the vehicle's control module. The same thing as using L can be achieved with light pressure on the brake pedal (sending the same basic instructions via a different combo of inputs).

So, it's no problem, nothing to wear out if you use L. My engineer on my drive-along said "Oh, you use that trick too? I like to shift to L to slow down as well."

 

Okay, this is something I talked to several people, including the prototype engineer about.

L, and D are the same, physically. The difference is software: when in D, you release the accelerator, you coast, when you press the brake, the regen kicks in. When in L, when you release the accelerator, they kick in the regen, same as light braking, and with some slight pressure on the accelerator you can go into a coast. Some people have been reporting better fuel economy just because of the more aggressive system that turns the engine off at 40, and that's the big difference, because in D, you have to either wait, or tap the breaks to get the engine off. You don't even get more energy back (unless your pressing too hard on the brakes and engage the friction brakes). In fact, under certain circumstances, L can be LESS efficient, because if you take your foot off the accelerator too soon, you end up capturing less energy than you spend re-accererating back to speed under certain circumstances. (Which he demonstrated as we watched the actual charge go to and from the battery)

Driving in the prototype, with all the data laptop, we drove the same course two loops around. One in D, one in L. We didn't get any more energy in L than in D.

What it boils down to is personal preference, on what you want to have happen when you take your foot off the accelerator.

 

Ford FEH Event Attendees,

Please answer the following on Ford FE feed-back:

- What is the most fuel efficient speed and/or RPM for FEH?

- Does switching back & forth from Drive to Low on the fly (in motion) have any negative effects on FEH?

- Did they recommend specific tire pressure for FE?

- Does the PCM actually "learn" a drivers style and adjust accordingly?

- Did they recommend any specific tricks for forcing into EV mode, such as the double brake tap or switch to Low?

- Is Ford considering an EV switch, similar to Prius, where driver may have better control over EV?

- Did Ford comment on whether to use EV as much as possible, or to drive with ICE in most efficient speed range for optimum FE?

- Did Ford discuss battery charge effects on lifecycle, e.g.: will there be a negative impact if draining battery prior to shut-off?

- Will updating PCM software in 2005 FEH help to increase fuel efficiency (some owners with both 2005 & 2006 say the 2006 gets better MPG)? If so, will Dealers charge for performing update?

- Does the fact that there are FEHs with different emissions ratings in different states have anything to do with some owners reporting things like it taking longer for engine warm-up and harder to go into EV mode than other FEH owners report?

- Are there slight differences in FEH versions that allow for some to get better EV capability, driving for longer distances and able to drive (not coast) at higher speeds (in 35-40MPH range)?

- Since Ford reported that with headlights on there is ~.9MPG loss, will they be using LED lights for new models that we may retrofit for 2005/2006 FEH?

Finally, will this training event be held at various other locations soon?

Thanks,
-Dan

 

I'll try to answer some of these...


- What is the most fuel efficient speed and/or RPM for FEH?

This really depends on a lot of factors. As previously stated, they showed a linear graph of speed related to fuel efficiency. It was a straight line with the highest starting at 30mph and going down as speed increases. I asked about this because I notice a distinct "sweet spot" around 45-50mph. The graph was theoretical, "in a vacuum" type of data. In the real world, there are many factors in play such as the loads on the system (AC, lights, stereo, etc.). As these are fixed loads, they will have a larger impact when the system is at lower output (lower speeds). This concept was also addressed in the presentation. Also, that sweet spot is at somewhat of a balance point where wind resistance isn't yet so great, the ICE can generate what it needs at around/just under 2000rpm which is a 'comfortable' spot, electric assist is also able to deliver a decent amount of help, etc.

- Does switching back & forth from Drive to Low on the fly (in motion) have any negative effects on FEH?

No. It's all just software... see previous posts.

- Did they recommend specific tire pressure for FE?

The pressure they recommend (period) is what's on the door panel... 35psi on my AWD, and I think it's the same for the FWD. For legal reasons, they cannot 'recommend' anything else. When he found my tire pressure at ~40psi, the engineer mentioned that he noticed I had my tires overinflated for mileage purposes, but that Ford does not recommend inflation over the factory specified 35psi... said in a way that made it fairly clear that he had to say that.

That said, there were numbers presented (see previous post) about the effects of low tire pressure. I was actually quite surprised that the loss in MPG for tires that were at 25psi, was so slight. I would have thought mileage would take more of a hit for such underinflated tires.

- Did they recommend any specific tricks for forcing into EV mode, such as the double brake tap or switch to Low?
&
- Did Ford comment on whether to use EV as much as possible, or to drive with ICE in most efficient speed range for optimum FE?

They didn't mention EV triggering methods in my session, but they did mention a few times that EV mode is great for many things, but we should remember that ALL the energy is coming from the ICE. The electric system is a great tool to re-distribute and re-cycle that energy (which is wasted in conventional vehicles), but it still all comes from gasoline. So, it's not necessarily going to save anything to stay in EV as much as possible.

- Did Ford discuss battery charge effects on lifecycle, e.g.: will there be a negative impact if draining battery prior to shut-off?

I didn't hear anything specifically addressing this, but what I found interesting is that the system essentially aims to keep the battery charge at 50%. So if you're braking and build up a charge, the system aims to use it, and if you drop below the system aims to replace it. It's not like I thought where it would charge until ~80%, or start charging once it drops to ~20%. So for example, now it makes more sense that after extensive highway driving when I would think the battery would be 'topped off' it actually takes a good amount of charge when decelerating from highway speeds. Other behavior also makes more sense with this in mind.

- Since Ford reported that with headlights on there is ~.9MPG loss, will they be using LED lights for new models that we may retrofit for 2005/2006 FEH?

No specific mention that I heard, but I think that was a question (regarding other lights) that GPS_man presented. Are they even using LEDs for car headlights? I don't know if they're bright enough for headlight use.

Finally, will this training event be held at various other locations soon?

Don't know, but what I'm certain of is that it would simply not be possible/feasible to do the same event elsewhere. 70 engineers, cutaway hybrid system & battery, numerous test/research vehicles as well as MMHs...

 

Randy did a good job answering them, but I figured I'd share what I was told as well.



Their real world testing showed 40 MPH was the most efficient for their drives. As mentioned, it depends on a lot of circumstances.


D and L are software differences, not physical ones. You can shift at any time and any speed safely.


35 PSI for all tires, and only getting LRR tires like you've got.


As much as they want to take credit for that, no, there's no learning for the PCM to a driver. There's break in, but no learning. They suspect that the learning is the other way, as we learn it.

You got it. They didn't mention it in the presentation, but the prototype engineer mentioned both.

No, but they seem to be thinking about it now, but don't get your hopes up.

Use EV, but don't try to be an electric car. Essentially, when it's in EV let it, when the engine kicks on, let it. Parking lots, EV. Driving 5 miles home, Hybrid.

Nope, it's designed to be one tough pal. In the event of a catastrophe, that's what the self jump is for. Like they said, they've been trying to kill the battery, and they've been unable to so far. (Extreme temperatures, drainage, etc.) They expect the batteries to outlive the vehicle itself.

Talking to the battery developer, there's no difference between the two years software wise, and it seems that our people who own both are an anomoly. Also, they spent a lot of time getting it right, and they don't think there's ever going to be a software update.


Not really, no. The temp, terrain, and other factors play a very large factor in it.

Not that they mentioned. Seems they should all be the same.

Good question.

They don't have any plans for doing anything this extensive that they mentioned, but the presentation may be moved around and given, or made more accessible for interested people. The response is still staggering to them, they weren't expecting the response and the people to be as knowledgable as we are, so anything is possible.

We had the engineers (like 60) there, all on their own time, doing this because they wanted to, and they're back to work on Monday.

 

I was at the Dearborn event. With respect to LED outside lights, they are working on it by increasing LED efficiency and clustering them together. I heard no predictions regarding if and when they would have good headlights.

Despite some quirks, I am extremely happy with my two-month old '06 Escape Hybrid. It has been between Motown and Mackinaw twice plus about 1500 miles of city driving.

 

Hi All:

___I have my own overall “Experience” write up just about ready to go but think this is a great thread for continuing discussion about the topic of the event or the event itself.

___Randy, I think John and I were speaking to you via Cel the night before as we were headed out that way. If that was you, thank you for your feedback given it matched the experience to a T as to what we experienced.

___An item I want to discuss occurred while I was walking with one of the battery engineers past the row of Escape’s whose owners were in the second session of the day at that point in time. We looked at 8 Escapes and the tire pressures were as follows:

Escape HEV #1: 4 - 5 #’s low.
Escape HEV #2: 2 #’s low.
Escape HEV #3: 2 - 3 #’s low.
Escape HEV #4: 4 - 5 #’s low.
Escape HEV #5: 2 - 3 #’s low.
Escape HEV #6: 5 #’s low.
Escape HEV #7: 2 - 6 #’s low.
Escape HEV #8: 7 #’s low.

___This was not a good omen although even with those slightly under inflated pressures, receiving 36 + on the Ford chosen slower - city route was a slam dunk using any of the basics some had just learned and were about to use in practice for the first time.

___When John arrived at my home, the first thing I did before we even attempted to drive off for some test runs was to modify his Escape HEV a bit. His pressures were 44#’s when he left CO. but were between 34 and 36 when he arrived here? I upped them to 47 front and 46 rear to start. I would drive with 50 #’s all around myself but it was a good tradeoff. Although none of the Escapes at the Experience oil levels were checked (I didn’t see that it was?), here is another area for improvement. John’s Escape had an oil change just a few thousand miles previous and the level was ½ again above Hi-Lo mark! I drained it all out and installed 4 quarts of Mobil1 0W-20 (1/2 way up the stick) to cure his Escape of that small problem. Next I built a radiator block as we were going to be driving in 55 degree F temps and below. The only item I forgot was that I left the knife used to cut the cardboard with on the shelf under the hood. Whoops. Ford saw that and even wrote it up as “Knife under Hood” Anyway, I just want you all to make sure that your pressures are corrected as you see fit, your oil level and type is what you consider optimal, and that you do not leave any tools under the hood for later discovery

___P&G and DWL were not recommended by Ford because they drop speeds by 15 + mph supposedly? Ford screwed that one up but it was far to detailed a technique to teach a non-FE enthusiast in 2 minutes of presentation and the same while behind the windscreen out on a test drive. I know you all love the L gear as it is about the only way to get the Escape HEV to guaranteed ICE off below 40 mph and above 50 degrees F. I can tell you from many P&G’s in any number of hybrid and non-hybrid automobiles that even though Regen is the Escape’s holy grail for the EV mode/Glide afterwards, if the ICE dropped out as easily as a FAS or Prius II in a P&G, you would receive even higher FE then the pegged 60 mpg I received with the Escape’s somewhat quirky ICE off threshold. That 60.0 + was achieved and then maintained across 14 miles of test road and all the way back to a local Shell station near my home after another 10 miles of highway and suburban roadway. Thanks to John for teaching me in real time what I have read about these last few days as there is nothing like an experienced pilot sitting in the seat next to you Anyway, your Escape HEV’s bleed FE because of its extremely well designed pack and MG2 imho. For the highway w/ and w/out cruise control discussion, who here has absolutely flat roads to drive on? I drive without 99% of the time in and around Chicago and Chicago is what most would consider a very flat area. Cruise is good when you or your accelerator pedal foot is fatigued but in my experience, your right foot and anticipatory behavior will knock cruise into the dirt each and every time.

___I have to apologize to a few Ford Employees as I was taking a drink of water while speaking to 4 or 5 at a time. That H2O went down the wrong pipe and I practically spit up all over them while coughing away afterwards! I was embarrassed of course but I bet they all had a good laugh about it later

___I have a few more tips in regards to highway FE and will share them at a later time but your Escape HEV’s just like the Insight, Prius II, and HCH is worth some truly outrageous FE when pushed. I see no reason that any of you with an all-city 20 + minute commute cannot achieve a 45 - 50 mpg tank when it warms up again next year. A longer distance highway driver will easily achieve 45 + in warmer temps if they have the patience and the ability to take it easy while playing in traffic out on the highways of just about any major city today.

___Finally, I want to say that in order of pack longevity, the Ford Escape HEV setup and protection schemes are far better then anything Toyota offers in any of their hybrid’s to date and far better then anything Honda has placed into any of their hybrids as well. When I said the Escape HEV was built Ford Tough earlier, I really meant it! If the HH, RXh, Prius I or II, Honda anything were subjected to what your Escape HEV was during its initial trials, they would not be anything but a totaled pile of junk. I am glad they did not have the opportunity to test my MDX to the same level they tested your Escape HEV’s to or it would be ready for the junk pile as well. In other words, you all have one hell of a tough SUV/Truck that just so happens to have the ability to receive FE that most Toyota Corolla and non-hybrid Honda Civic drivers can and will only dream of!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net