Pulse and Glide Class - Sign up. Trainers needed (MHG 9/17 meeting)
#1
08-11-2005, 10:55 AM
Pulse and Glide Class - Sign up. Trainers needed (MHG 9/17 meeting)
Many of you have read about the Pulse and Glide technique used during the mpg marathon last weekend. Using the technique, the drivers achieved 110 mpg for a whole tank of gas in an unmodified Prius. This technique can be applied easily to other Toyota/Lexus hybrids as well.
As part of the Madison Hybrid Group September 17 meeting in Middleton, WI, we will have a Behind-The-Wheel “Pulse and Glide” class. We may even have one of the marathon drivers, Wayne Gerdes, there as a trainer!
If you are coming to the meeting and interested in learning the P&G technique at the meeting let me know ASAP so we can reserve a spot for you.
And on a related note…
*Request for Volunteers*
We will need at least four people to volunteer to be P&G trainers.
If you are a local Madison person and are willing to be a “trainer”, but don’t know how to P&G yet, contact me now. We can figure out a date to meet over the lunch hour and I’ll show you how to P&G. It’s easy to learn and then you’ll be able to show others during our September meeting.
As part of the Madison Hybrid Group September 17 meeting in Middleton, WI, we will have a Behind-The-Wheel “Pulse and Glide” class. We may even have one of the marathon drivers, Wayne Gerdes, there as a trainer!
If you are coming to the meeting and interested in learning the P&G technique at the meeting let me know ASAP so we can reserve a spot for you.
And on a related note…
*Request for Volunteers*
We will need at least four people to volunteer to be P&G trainers.
If you are a local Madison person and are willing to be a “trainer”, but don’t know how to P&G yet, contact me now. We can figure out a date to meet over the lunch hour and I’ll show you how to P&G. It’s easy to learn and then you’ll be able to show others during our September meeting.
Last edited by ericbecky; 08-11-2005 at 11:02 AM.
#2
08-11-2005, 10:04 PM
Re: Pulse and Glide Class - Sign up. Trainers needed (MHG 9/17 meeting)
I'd be interested in coming up from Chicago but I have to check my work schedule as the date gets closer.
#3
08-25-2005, 12:42 AM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Pulse and Glide Class - Sign up. Trainers needed (MHG 9/17 meeting)
I was wondering if someone could describe in writing the "pulse & glide" technique you all speak about. I have some ideas in my mind based on what seems logical. 
Do you use gas to accelerate, then "glide" in electric only for extended periods? What is the max speed the Prius can go on electric only?
The Ford has a pre-programmed limit of 40 MPH that there seems to be no way around, even if coasting downhill. So I do my best to drive 39.9!
I own a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, and have learned to achieve Prius like mileage ( sustained 50+ MPG ) on city streets in my 4,000 pound vehicle. The only mods I did were: 1.) extra air in the tires (44psi) 2.) removed the roof rack cross members ( less air drag? ) and 3.) installed low wattage LED tail-lamps and turn-signal lamps.
I use battery ( as most do ) for zero to 20 or 25 mph.
Then I use gas for about 30 to 60 seconds to get to 40 mph...
Then, I use battery only to maintain about 35 MPH for up to 3 miles.
I have achieved nearly a 1:1 ratio. 1 mile off battery to 1 mile off gas.
( Or 3 miles off battery followed by 3 miles off gas. Rinse. Repeat. )
Ford, and most users, advocate using battery mostly for acceleration, and using gas to maintain constant speed. This nets up to 36 MPG.
Using battery to get rollin' and gas to accelerate in the middle, and using battery to maintain speed... I've added 50% to my mileage. I still can't believe it, but it has worked for the past 250 miles. I can't wait to pump gas and see how close the on-screen computer reading of 50MPG really is. Even if the computer is 10% off on the high side, this is still fabulous. After 246 miles, the dash message center says I still have 356 miles to go! Outstanding if true!
( I'll post an update after my tank finally gets empty! )
-John in Colorado
Do you use gas to accelerate, then "glide" in electric only for extended periods? What is the max speed the Prius can go on electric only?
The Ford has a pre-programmed limit of 40 MPH that there seems to be no way around, even if coasting downhill. So I do my best to drive 39.9!
I own a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, and have learned to achieve Prius like mileage ( sustained 50+ MPG ) on city streets in my 4,000 pound vehicle. The only mods I did were: 1.) extra air in the tires (44psi) 2.) removed the roof rack cross members ( less air drag? ) and 3.) installed low wattage LED tail-lamps and turn-signal lamps.
I use battery ( as most do ) for zero to 20 or 25 mph.
Then I use gas for about 30 to 60 seconds to get to 40 mph...
Then, I use battery only to maintain about 35 MPH for up to 3 miles.
I have achieved nearly a 1:1 ratio. 1 mile off battery to 1 mile off gas.
( Or 3 miles off battery followed by 3 miles off gas. Rinse. Repeat. )
Ford, and most users, advocate using battery mostly for acceleration, and using gas to maintain constant speed. This nets up to 36 MPG.
Using battery to get rollin' and gas to accelerate in the middle, and using battery to maintain speed... I've added 50% to my mileage. I still can't believe it, but it has worked for the past 250 miles. I can't wait to pump gas and see how close the on-screen computer reading of 50MPG really is. Even if the computer is 10% off on the high side, this is still fabulous. After 246 miles, the dash message center says I still have 356 miles to go! Outstanding if true!
( I'll post an update after my tank finally gets empty! )
-John in Colorado
#4
08-25-2005, 04:27 AM
Re: Pulse and Glide Class - Sign up. Trainers needed (MHG 9/17 meeting)
It's basically what you are doing, except for the using electric mode to maintain speed. What P&G does is use the ICE to get up to speed, then take your foot off the gas, letting the ICE shut down, then put your foot back on the gas ever so slightly so that you aren't using the electric motor, or the gas motor, just coasting using hardly any power. Once speed drops down to a certain level you fire up the ICE again to 'pulse' back up to speed, and repeat. The idea is to use the ICE in it's most efficient mode (~50% output) rather than maintaining speed with the ICE at say 15% output where it's less efficient. In order for it to work the coasting portion needs to be about 3x as long as the pulse portion.
#5
08-25-2005, 01:59 PM
Re: Pulse and Glide Class - Sign up. Trainers needed (MHG 9/17 meeting)
Hi GPSman1:
___You are doing what you can in your Escape HEV from my understanding. When I first heard of the P&G technique really picking up ones FE in the HSD equipped hybrid’s and seeing the wild results for myself in a friends borrowed 05 Prius II, I passed on the basics to a number of HCH’ers, Insight’ers, and Escape HEV’ers here at GH. The Escape guys never came back with any hard data but one that no longer participates here stated that the Escape HEV with the Prius I limited THS did not go into a glide mode as the HSD equipped Toyota’s and Lexus’ do today. Let me know as I am still interested in the answer to this question myself … With that, an EV steady state propulsion mode instead of a glide because you “cannot get there from here” in the format you have chosen sounds perfect imho. The 1:1 ratio sounds a bit high but you are maintaining speed instead of letting it bleed off during your EV propulsion mode. Why not try a hybrid P&G technique more suited to the Escape HEV by letting your Escape HEV bleed off speed during EV mode to a lower target speed and pulse back up w/ the ICE powering the wheels as well as sending what current is available to the pack for the next Pack assisted EV mode Glide? I think if you can get the ICE run times down to maybe 35% or less yet still maintain a pack SoC high enough with a std. pulse to bring the SoC back up again for the next EV assisted - Glide event, you will have a method for 60 - 70 mpg + ? This is really a WAG (wild @$$ guess) given I have never driven an Escape HEV but ****ed if I haven’t tried to get my hands on one to try this out for myself
___As a data point, although the 4,500 # - 4WD - Acura MDX - EPA rated 17/23 - is not a hybrid or a relatively fuel efficient automobile to begin with, I could maintain 39.x mpg using a non-hybrid modded P&G technique. Ericbecky took an almost brand new, Toyota Corp owned, 4,100 # - 2WD - HH - EPA rated 33/28 - that was not entirely setup for hypermiling to 47.1 mpg over 20 + miles using the std. P&G technique. I think you might find that your 3,600 # - 2WD - Escape HEV - EPA rated 36/31 - is worth quite a bit more then these numbers when really pushed
___About the P&G write up … it has been written about in what I thought was pretty good detail at the following: 92.04 mpg from a Prius II on my first attempt?
___The maximum limit for a P&G to achieve stellar results is 41 mph due to the ICE having to be spun up above that speed (not started, just spinning on a glide or running on a pulse) to protect one of the 2 MGSet’s. Your Escape has similar limitations as you have already stated.
___Finally, good luck with your latest tank! I am very interested in hearing your results as well as future progress. It can only help present and future Escape HEV drivers improve their own FE when the technique(s) can be applied in everyone’s day to day no matter how short the period for the greatest advantage …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___You are doing what you can in your Escape HEV from my understanding. When I first heard of the P&G technique really picking up ones FE in the HSD equipped hybrid’s and seeing the wild results for myself in a friends borrowed 05 Prius II, I passed on the basics to a number of HCH’ers, Insight’ers, and Escape HEV’ers here at GH. The Escape guys never came back with any hard data but one that no longer participates here stated that the Escape HEV with the Prius I limited THS did not go into a glide mode as the HSD equipped Toyota’s and Lexus’ do today. Let me know as I am still interested in the answer to this question myself … With that, an EV steady state propulsion mode instead of a glide because you “cannot get there from here” in the format you have chosen sounds perfect imho. The 1:1 ratio sounds a bit high but you are maintaining speed instead of letting it bleed off during your EV propulsion mode. Why not try a hybrid P&G technique more suited to the Escape HEV by letting your Escape HEV bleed off speed during EV mode to a lower target speed and pulse back up w/ the ICE powering the wheels as well as sending what current is available to the pack for the next Pack assisted EV mode Glide? I think if you can get the ICE run times down to maybe 35% or less yet still maintain a pack SoC high enough with a std. pulse to bring the SoC back up again for the next EV assisted - Glide event, you will have a method for 60 - 70 mpg + ? This is really a WAG (wild @$$ guess) given I have never driven an Escape HEV but ****ed if I haven’t tried to get my hands on one to try this out for myself
___As a data point, although the 4,500 # - 4WD - Acura MDX - EPA rated 17/23 - is not a hybrid or a relatively fuel efficient automobile to begin with, I could maintain 39.x mpg using a non-hybrid modded P&G technique. Ericbecky took an almost brand new, Toyota Corp owned, 4,100 # - 2WD - HH - EPA rated 33/28 - that was not entirely setup for hypermiling to 47.1 mpg over 20 + miles using the std. P&G technique. I think you might find that your 3,600 # - 2WD - Escape HEV - EPA rated 36/31 - is worth quite a bit more then these numbers when really pushed
___About the P&G write up … it has been written about in what I thought was pretty good detail at the following: 92.04 mpg from a Prius II on my first attempt?
___The maximum limit for a P&G to achieve stellar results is 41 mph due to the ICE having to be spun up above that speed (not started, just spinning on a glide or running on a pulse) to protect one of the 2 MGSet’s. Your Escape has similar limitations as you have already stated.
___Finally, good luck with your latest tank! I am very interested in hearing your results as well as future progress. It can only help present and future Escape HEV drivers improve their own FE when the technique(s) can be applied in everyone’s day to day no matter how short the period for the greatest advantage …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
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