Block Heater for Texas Summer?
#11
01-30-2007, 02:13 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
The Prius is a fantastic car that has a "Thermos" that it pumps the coolent in to keep it warm while turned off. I wouldn't fuss with a block heater for a Prius in Texas in the summer.....A Prius will warm up very fast all by itself.
A block heater on a timer to warm up a car right before you go to work might be a pretty good idea for any other car except the Prius.
A block heater on a timer to warm up a car right before you go to work might be a pretty good idea for any other car except the Prius.
#12
01-30-2007, 04:58 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
True the Prius has a "thermos" for the coolant but I don't think it can keep the coolant toasty for 2 days while in 20 F temps while a Block Heater can (I think the Prius can keep the coolant mildly warm after a day in the Spring/Summer/Fall but definitely not the winter -- it isn't like that thermos has heater bands on it but even if it did the car would need an electrical source to run the heater bands and this is not available in the stock setup as far as I know).
#13
01-30-2007, 05:12 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
Bill (toast64) where do you live? I keep hearing how people think a Block Heater doesn't pay for itself but I still claim it does. The heater for our Civic HCH-II (yours and mine) are 400-Watt heaters so in one hour they consume just 0.4 kw or it will take 2.5 hours to burn 1.0 kW and my latest bill shows this as something around 11 cents per kW (or between 9 cents and 14 cents per kW) so for 3 hours of heating it is under 15 cents to warm the car and this is EASILY justifiable in my mind. I don't drink Starbucks but one cup of coffee at $6.50 would make for 43 mornings or don't Super Size that happy meal and save the $1.20 for 8 mornings. You get the idea.
I posted in one of the Civic-II threads that without the Block Heater I will see 42-45 mpg when I arrive at the office but with the Block Heater I see 47-50 mpg. That is a difference of about 5 mpg (on my car and my commute, YMMV) and if I do that for 10 mornings then that is a savings of 0.44 gal (20 miles @ 45 mpg * 10 days = 4.44 gal vs. 20 miles @ 50 mpg * 10 days = 4.00 gal). At our current prices that is a savings of $2.25/gal * 0.44 gal or $0.99 (and 10 days of heating costs 10 * $0.15 or $1.50). That shows as a loss but a very very minimal one. Face it, if you make the wrong turn on your way to a party and have to hit the *next* exit down the Interstate and end up driving 10 miles too far then you just wasted 1/4 or 1/5 of a gal and that ends up being $0.45-$0.55 so it isn't all about the cost savings sometimes (it is just really nice to get in a cold car, start it, have heat in about 4 seconds, and leave right away without having to wait for it to idle for 8 minutes). No more wrong turns now -- you are consuming your Block Heater budget each time you do that. =)
I posted in one of the Civic-II threads that without the Block Heater I will see 42-45 mpg when I arrive at the office but with the Block Heater I see 47-50 mpg. That is a difference of about 5 mpg (on my car and my commute, YMMV) and if I do that for 10 mornings then that is a savings of 0.44 gal (20 miles @ 45 mpg * 10 days = 4.44 gal vs. 20 miles @ 50 mpg * 10 days = 4.00 gal). At our current prices that is a savings of $2.25/gal * 0.44 gal or $0.99 (and 10 days of heating costs 10 * $0.15 or $1.50). That shows as a loss but a very very minimal one. Face it, if you make the wrong turn on your way to a party and have to hit the *next* exit down the Interstate and end up driving 10 miles too far then you just wasted 1/4 or 1/5 of a gal and that ends up being $0.45-$0.55 so it isn't all about the cost savings sometimes (it is just really nice to get in a cold car, start it, have heat in about 4 seconds, and leave right away without having to wait for it to idle for 8 minutes). No more wrong turns now -- you are consuming your Block Heater budget each time you do that. =)
I am very surprised that you are gaining 5 mpg over 20 miles by using the block heater. Have you actually recorded this over many trips to verify that? I should theroetically do better than you, since my commute is only 10 miles. But I see an average of 2.1 mpg better using the block heater. This is over 124 recorded trips of the same length, same conditions (with as many variables controlled as possible), with temperatures ranging from the low teens to the low seventies. So you can see that my savings, and the basis of my statements, is less than half of what you claim.
#14
01-30-2007, 05:30 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
True the Prius has a "thermos" for the coolant but I don't think it can keep the coolant toasty for 2 days while in 20 F temps while a Block Heater can (I think the Prius can keep the coolant mildly warm after a day in the Spring/Summer/Fall but definitely not the winter -- it isn't like that thermos has heater bands on it but even if it did the car would need an electrical source to run the heater bands and this is not available in the stock setup as far as I know).
#15
01-30-2007, 06:31 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
Bill - Still don't know where you live. Anyway, check out this other post and scroll down about halfway to my post with some comparisons when I had the Block Heater plugged in prior to leaving and when I did not have it plugged in. These are not claims but proven numbers. Granted, tonight we headed out to dinner (2.5 miles away) and after returning home in the 20 F temps the display read 24.7 mpg - ouch - and that was with the Block Heater working for the first trip out to dinner but a cold car on the return.
And everything is justifiable. I didn't buy a CD of a group I liked so that was $18.99 that I get to put toward the Block Heater, right? I didn't buy dessert at dinner so that was another $4.59 to deposit to the funds. Heh. The Block Heater was quite affordable at $48 and shipping was $6 and installation was free. I really thought the part would be double or triple that so was pleased to see it around $50. I also don't have a garage so the car sits out 24x7 so it takes the place of a garage in a way by allowing the car to be "nearly" at temperature in the morning and within a few miles it is up to snuff.
And everything is justifiable. I didn't buy a CD of a group I liked so that was $18.99 that I get to put toward the Block Heater, right? I didn't buy dessert at dinner so that was another $4.59 to deposit to the funds. Heh. The Block Heater was quite affordable at $48 and shipping was $6 and installation was free. I really thought the part would be double or triple that so was pleased to see it around $50. I also don't have a garage so the car sits out 24x7 so it takes the place of a garage in a way by allowing the car to be "nearly" at temperature in the morning and within a few miles it is up to snuff.
#16
01-31-2007, 05:34 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
Flash,
Sorry, I live in Davenport, Iowa.
Thanks for pointing out the post where you posted your mileage data. Here's my take:
First, there are two days there where you did not use your block heater. One was 32 deg, the other 36. Your mileage varied by almost 9 mpg! That's telling me there were variables involved with those two dates that skewed your data on 1/19. Perhaps it was a bad day where you hit a lot of the lights on red? I see those kind of days also, such as the day you had a strong headwind. That's why I didn't trust the data until I had collected many months over varying conditions to try to smooth out the unusual events.
Also, yes, on the portion of the trip where you are travelling 7.2 miles, one would expect to see a bigger spread in mileage, because the heater only makes a difference in warming the car up faster. Once it's up to temp, the heater's benefit disappears. This is why, of course, you see the affect dampening with your data for entire trips. You mentioned 42-45 without the heater, and 47-50 with it, over 20 miles. I don't see that reflected in any of the data on the HCHII site post. In fact, I see very similar readings over 20+ miles, excluding outliers such as the day you had the headwind, and assuming the trip on 1/19 had other variables involved. So I remain unconvinced that the heater will save money, or even come close to saving money, unless possibly your commute is very short, like only a couple of miles.
Is it worth the investment to me? Yes. Am I glad I spent the money? Yes. Can I justify buying it? Yes. Does it same me money? No.
Sorry, I live in Davenport, Iowa.
Thanks for pointing out the post where you posted your mileage data. Here's my take:
First, there are two days there where you did not use your block heater. One was 32 deg, the other 36. Your mileage varied by almost 9 mpg! That's telling me there were variables involved with those two dates that skewed your data on 1/19. Perhaps it was a bad day where you hit a lot of the lights on red? I see those kind of days also, such as the day you had a strong headwind. That's why I didn't trust the data until I had collected many months over varying conditions to try to smooth out the unusual events.
Also, yes, on the portion of the trip where you are travelling 7.2 miles, one would expect to see a bigger spread in mileage, because the heater only makes a difference in warming the car up faster. Once it's up to temp, the heater's benefit disappears. This is why, of course, you see the affect dampening with your data for entire trips. You mentioned 42-45 without the heater, and 47-50 with it, over 20 miles. I don't see that reflected in any of the data on the HCHII site post. In fact, I see very similar readings over 20+ miles, excluding outliers such as the day you had the headwind, and assuming the trip on 1/19 had other variables involved. So I remain unconvinced that the heater will save money, or even come close to saving money, unless possibly your commute is very short, like only a couple of miles.
Is it worth the investment to me? Yes. Am I glad I spent the money? Yes. Can I justify buying it? Yes. Does it same me money? No.
#17
01-31-2007, 06:37 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
I drove through Davenport on my way from here to San Fran last May. Quad Cities at the Mighty Miss. Sure there are variables but this will be HUGE in a short trip of 7 miles while an overall day of 150 miles will absolutely swallow up a bad acceleration up a long hill or 40 red lights for half an hour straight. On those low days (anything below say 45 mpg) was when I hit all 4 traffic lights getting to that first call (all 4 lights are the last 4 blocks of the drive). On the good runs (like today, 7.2 mi @ 50.1 mpg and 17 F!!!!) is when I get these 4 lights green.
What I wanted to show was that on days like today (17 F) and other days of low-20s where I get 47-50 mpg was comparable to the non-Block Heater days where the temps were in the mid-30s (and some calculations show that this is not twice as warm but four times as warm but I've forgotten my exact Thermodynamics equations from school). But to get higher mpg numbers in half the temperature has got to be an indication ... yes?
What I wanted to show was that on days like today (17 F) and other days of low-20s where I get 47-50 mpg was comparable to the non-Block Heater days where the temps were in the mid-30s (and some calculations show that this is not twice as warm but four times as warm but I've forgotten my exact Thermodynamics equations from school). But to get higher mpg numbers in half the temperature has got to be an indication ... yes?
#18
02-01-2007, 08:12 AM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
Flash,
Yeah, Quad Cities - jewel of the midwest.
We're on the same page. I love the block heater. I agree with you that there are good reasons to buy one, and it's pretty easy to justify the expense in my mind.
My primary concern is that new people to the site don't get the impression that if they install a block heater they will recover their money and save money over time. It's a nice-to-have, not a money saver, at least not at today's gas prices. Now, should gas prices go up several dollars a gallon and electric prices stay about the same, then we'll be able to show it as a true money saver!
Good discussion.
Yeah, Quad Cities - jewel of the midwest.
We're on the same page. I love the block heater. I agree with you that there are good reasons to buy one, and it's pretty easy to justify the expense in my mind.
My primary concern is that new people to the site don't get the impression that if they install a block heater they will recover their money and save money over time. It's a nice-to-have, not a money saver, at least not at today's gas prices. Now, should gas prices go up several dollars a gallon and electric prices stay about the same, then we'll be able to show it as a true money saver!
Good discussion.
#19
02-01-2007, 01:34 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
Yep - good discussion here. I also got mine for the purpose of never wanting to hear the normal Starter engage itself and so far I have not (tho a friend with an Insight says his car without the block heater and in the dead of winter at 0 F and -10 F even never ran the Starter on his car). Maybe the Canucks can ring in if their HCH-II has ever cranked over the Starter when it was very cold. I've never had Starter issues on the previous Honda/Acura cars owned but a previous Mitsubishi has issues once above the 165k mark. And maybe the very northern folks (South Dakota, Montana, Canada, etc.) have more reasons to own a Block Heater but it just takes the place of a garage for me as my car sits out all the time, or $150 for a remote starter installation, or a few pennies of gas from idling. I don't have XM Radio to spend money on or an iPod so I can splurge on a Block Heater. 
#20
02-01-2007, 02:14 PM
Re: Block Heater for Texas Summer?
Now THERE'S a great place for a block heater. Given the choice between idling the car to warm it up and a block heater, take the block heater every time! Good call.
