Here in Nebraska (as well as most other agriculture-based states) there is a big push for Ethanol blended fuels. It is cheaper to buy at the pump, and provides jobs for local farmers. It is also supposed to alleiviate our dependence (in the long run) on foreign oil. What does everybody here use? Do your hybrids dig Ethanol-blended fuels? How about your non-hybrids? And has your mechanic or service tech told you NOT to use it for whatever reason? I periodically use a 10% Ethanol blend in my '97 Cavy, and I know Minnesota has a state-wide implementation of blended fuels. Your thoughts on this...

 

All cars, to my knowledge, can use up to 10% ethanol-mixed gas. It is used in several states as a replacement for MBTE.

The problem with nationwide ethanol from an economic standpoint is distribution. If you are near an ag region that grows a crop that can produce it, its cheap (ish). Ethanol/Gasohol blends CANNOT be transported via pipeline because alcohol is 100% miscible with water and cannot be separated. Currently, if a pipe is contaminated that's ok- water can be easily separated in a variety of ways from gasoline, or almost any hydrocarbon. Almost all gas flows from the refinery to regional distro via pipe. That's not about to change overnight- billions of $ in infrastructure.

Thus, ethanol must be shipped by truck/rail...much more expensive, and mixed with the gas at the local distro depot...even more cost added.

Therein lies the rub. Consider yourself lucky where you are.

 

Hi GoNavy:

___I knew about the water issue in the pipeline but never considered the transportation via rail/truck side of the equation. That’s got to hurt Brazil however has it figured out. They fortunately or not have their production sites (100,000 Sugar Cane plantations to date) spread out and can cover much of the country without to much trouble … I thought I had read that they will actually be energy independent by 2011 - 2015 or so because of the big E?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Brazil has a lot of dedicated alcohol cars, so it's actually not so much a big deal. I've read of guys making their own ethanol in stills and only refining it to about 160 proof; i.e. 80% alcohol, 20% water. It's perfectly fine as long as you NEVER run the car on gasoline again. I don't see nearly as much future in ethanol production as I do diesel, to be entirely honest. Ethanol (from what I've read) takes quite a bit more energy to produce, comes from lower-yeild, higher cost feedstock, and of course E100 is only 76,000 BTU versus B100 biodiesel at 128,000 BTU.

 

To make B100 you still need about 10% Ethanol/Methanol, so good methods of production still need to be worked out and we'll probably see some huge jumps in efficiency through innovative processes.

I feed my Colt 10% ethanol because it needs 91+ octane for it's torque, but it also happens to be a Canadian oil company so that makes the deal even better, if you can call it a deal. I haven't found it to be significantly cheaper, but it's so hard to tell because the price of gas varies so much from station to station and city to city.

 

Ethanol is ok, but Methanol is a killer. Be aware of the composition of the "ethanol" you plan to use.

 

Ethanol should be essentially dismissed as a transportation fuel. It takes more oil to make a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of gasoline. And farmers needn't worry - as the world oil supply tightens, they'll have their hands full growing enough FOOD for everyone without "wasting" any on fuel.

 

Hi Alex A:
___Brazil seems to be getting along just fine and is headed toward energy independence on ethanol … unlike us poor saps! You can believe some scientists, engineers, and educators that preach exactly what you have posted or you can look to Brazil because they are actually doing it. In fact, they are actually exporting the stuff for profit at $25.00 per BBl!

___If we can continue down our present path of increased fossil fuel consumption, higher prices, shortages, and higher emissions (more CO2) are a guarantee. Or we can head down another path and possibly become energy independent as well as a much better global neighbor … Maybe Brazil’s scientists, engineers, and educators are smarter then ours because they seemed to have figured it out?

___It would be great to fill up with ethanol at ~ $1.10 per gallon and receive just 32 mpg vs. $3.10 per and receive 40 mpg. Not having to deal with all the negatives because of our insatiable thirst for the stuff makes me wonder who is telling what to whom? The transportation issue still abounds but if what many used to consider a third world country can do it, I am sure we can as well.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

From a DOE website:

"While the manufacture of crop fertilizers and extraction and purification of ethanol can be highly energy intensive, this is not the case in Brazil, because much of the work is done by hand."

Who in the USA is willing to work a farm or refinery (sorry, distillery?), completely or mostly "by hand", for what is probably less-than-minimum wage?

 

Well two comments on that. Number 1, that's easy: They enter our country from the south at a rate of about 2.5 million a year. Number 2, we don't mass produce Ethanol here on a truly massive scale. If we did, we'd develop new technologies that do it more efficiently. Lots of things aren't cost effective if you don't use highly optimized modern processes to do it. I still think ethanol will play second fiddle to biodiesel, but there's no doubt it's a useful and needed fuel.