Heat vs. A/C
#1
Heat vs. A/C
Obviously A/C alters the fuel economy of vehicles, but does using heat at all?
I've never heard anything about heat having any effect on fuel economy, but anyways I'm just curious.
I've never heard anything about heat having any effect on fuel economy, but anyways I'm just curious.
#2
Re: Heat vs. A/C
If it does it's very minor. You have to run a fan which uses some power. In a conventional car you use the heat the engine is already generated and being removed via the cooling system. A hybrid would be the same. I'd assume that even if the ICE is off for a while it would not cool down significantly and have no effect on the heat produced.
A/C needs to power a compressor which does suck down some power.
A/C needs to power a compressor which does suck down some power.
#3
Re: Heat vs. A/C
Originally Posted by greenLIFE
Obviously A/C alters the fuel economy of vehicles, but does using heat at all?
I've never heard anything about heat having any effect on fuel economy, but anyways I'm just curious.
I've never heard anything about heat having any effect on fuel economy, but anyways I'm just curious.
#5
Re: Heat vs. A/C
Originally Posted by jdenenberg
Using heat does accelerate the cooling of the ICE when you are running on electric. The ICE will turn on more often to keep at temperature and slightly reduce your MPG.
Bob Wilson
#6
Re: Heat vs. A/C
A radiator block is straight forward and does work as advertised, but also add a facility to track coolant (two loops, ICE and Tranny) temperature and alarm on overheating. Too much heat can be dangerous to you pocketbook.
JeffD
JeffD
#7
Re: Heat vs. A/C
Here's a tricky question about effect of heat, specific to the Prius:
The Prius ICE runs in very rich mode for the forst two minutes after a cold start to warmp up rapidly. AFAIKleaving this rich mode is in part dependent on mesured enine temperature. FE is usually abysmal during this time, which is why many short trips in the Prius tank the mileage. A block heater would help.
The Prius also uses an electric heating element to help heat the cabin, if the ICE is not yet warmed up sufficiently. Thus, if you use heat during the first 2 minutes, you will be using the electric heater element, which should suck up energy via the electric generator/motor.
However, this same process (electric heating) should increase the load for the ICE during startup, and may shorten the warmup period of rich running at low FE, saving fuel. The question is: how does this balance out.
Any thoughts?
The Prius ICE runs in very rich mode for the forst two minutes after a cold start to warmp up rapidly. AFAIKleaving this rich mode is in part dependent on mesured enine temperature. FE is usually abysmal during this time, which is why many short trips in the Prius tank the mileage. A block heater would help.
The Prius also uses an electric heating element to help heat the cabin, if the ICE is not yet warmed up sufficiently. Thus, if you use heat during the first 2 minutes, you will be using the electric heater element, which should suck up energy via the electric generator/motor.
However, this same process (electric heating) should increase the load for the ICE during startup, and may shorten the warmup period of rich running at low FE, saving fuel. The question is: how does this balance out.
Any thoughts?
#8
Re: Heat vs. A/C
Originally Posted by MGBGT
However, this same process (electric heating) should increase the load for the ICE during startup, and may shorten the warmup period of rich running at low FE, saving fuel. The question is: how does this balance out.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
From what I understand the relevant system is the catalytic converter -- if that runs too cold, it is unable to breakdown NOx, CO, and other harmful gases. As far as I know, this is the same reason why the Insight with Lean Burn has a poorer emissions rating than the CVT version. Running the engine lean at partial load, rather than with a partial vacuum, will increase the thermal efficiency of the engine by converting more heat into power and throwing less out the tailpipe, but this has the tradeoff of worse emissions. This is the major drawback of proposed heat-capture mechanisms that could potentially offer greater mileage.*
* The BMW system though is pretty clever, and seems to be an exception, it uses the catalytic converter as a heat exchanger once it reaches operating temp, to power a steam motor.
Last edited by Double-Trinity; 08-28-2006 at 08:54 PM.
#9
Re: Heat vs. A/C
Originally Posted by MGBGT
Here's a tricky question about effect of heat, specific to the Prius:
The Prius ICE runs in very rich mode for the forst two minutes after a cold start to warmp up rapidly. AFAIKleaving this rich mode is in part dependent on mesured enine temperature. FE is usually abysmal during this time, which is why many short trips in the Prius tank the mileage. A block heater would help.
The Prius also uses an electric heating element to help heat the cabin, if the ICE is not yet warmed up sufficiently. Thus, if you use heat during the first 2 minutes, you will be using the electric heater element, which should suck up energy via the electric generator/motor.
However, this same process (electric heating) should increase the load for the ICE during startup, and may shorten the warmup period of rich running at low FE, saving fuel. The question is: how does this balance out.
Any thoughts?
The Prius ICE runs in very rich mode for the forst two minutes after a cold start to warmp up rapidly. AFAIKleaving this rich mode is in part dependent on mesured enine temperature. FE is usually abysmal during this time, which is why many short trips in the Prius tank the mileage. A block heater would help.
The Prius also uses an electric heating element to help heat the cabin, if the ICE is not yet warmed up sufficiently. Thus, if you use heat during the first 2 minutes, you will be using the electric heater element, which should suck up energy via the electric generator/motor.
However, this same process (electric heating) should increase the load for the ICE during startup, and may shorten the warmup period of rich running at low FE, saving fuel. The question is: how does this balance out.
Any thoughts?
I have yet to find an easily detectable indicator of the transition from poor to good MPG. The 'blue' engine cold light goes out too early but is better than nothing. Experiments using the access road on my morning commute indicates warm-up continues for several minutes. But my approach is to add a block heater and transaxle oil pan heater ("Don't curse the darkness, light a candle.")
Bob Wilson
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