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-   -   Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips (https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f22/hypermilers-post-safe-high-fe-driving-tips-7702/)

Double-Trinity 06-04-2006 09:42 AM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 

Originally Posted by tomdavie
good post. I like the tips about going slower and anticipating braking sooner.

I dont think pumping up the tires beyond the recommended psi is wize. Id rather just stick to the recommended level. I also will not start carrying around a bunch of apparatus in my car. I will just use the AC when i need to. I find putting the ac on the lowest setting doenst do


R
eccomended pressure is almost always on the low side for the sake of creating a cushier ride, not necessarily improving performance or gas mileage. I would say try out 40psi -- between reccomended and max sidewall. If you find the handling, road-feel, and mileage improvements outweight the additional noise/harshness, keep the pressure up. It should be not be unsafe -- some reports have even showed slightly improved stopping distances, especialy wet.

Hot_Georgia_2004 06-04-2006 12:11 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
Mr. Kite, thanks for the post.
I've driven 70,000 miles on my original set of Dunlop tires and had them set to 51PSI over their life. 51 is the max cold pressure for my Dunlops.
I'm ready for new tires, and have worn evenly across the tread.

ElanC, as we know I was suggesting taking a different route which favors better MPG. What you posted makes good sense. However the MPG difference can be much greater than a couple MPG's. For example I could take the freeway for 99.5% of my commute but choose to take a parallel highway for about 1/2 the trip instead. I get +10MPG better for that segment.
The side road is a bit over a mile longer.

tomdavie 06-04-2006 01:15 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
gang

thanks for the new info regarding the tire pressure. I will bump mine up to 3 psi below max sidewall. That seems reasonalbe. NOT to what some of these jokers bump it up to however.

i will NOT bring apparatus in my car like wet towels and ice just so i dont put the AC on. I will NOT spend my waking hours obsessed with being able to post the best MPG on this site or lose sight of the fact it ALREADY gets much better mileage than a regular gas car. Can we just get on with our lives without going way overboard?

To the casual observer, going crazy on the MPG to the point of where it starts to really look ridiculous actually cheapens the site as average folks cant relate to it, and conclude we are a 'fringe group' of obsessed freaks.

My hope was to promote the benefits of the hybrid, as a normal american would enjoy it, so that more and more of us will switch to hybrids.

I didnt come here to become part of some cult that goes to ridiculous lengths to embellish MPG to the point where nothing else in life matters.

Boasting MPG numbers that are 'dubious' at best, obscure scenerios, and outright bragging about ridiculous technics does not help our cause. Its done to showcase the egos of those involved -which saddens me

Helium in the tires???? cmon man..........


Automakers no doubt read our blog , eagerly seeking what the real world MPG is on their vehicles. They end up having to take it with a 'large margin' grain of salt when they see the ridiculous lengths these guys go to to 'put up numbers' like its a contest or something. They are not interested in obscure scenerio trumped up numbers that wont be realistically duplicated in normal situation driving.

Do you honestly believe toyota or honda is going to start handing out wet towels and ice -instead of AC -on their cars. Not very constructive a suggestion huh......

Even if the 'technics' can be taught, americans are not going to spend all this time 'relearing' how to drive to milk an extra mpg out of their car, and if they do -they will just use the new skills in their gas cars, defeating the purpose of driving a hybrid, as their 'state of the art' training will reap them better mileage in their gas cars. So why shell out the extra expense of the hybrid?

Do you now honestly expect honda and toyota to now include classes on how to 'pulse and glide' -instead of just drive the **** car?

Average americans come to this site , looking to get better mpg , and help the enviroment and foreign oil. They then are aghast to see hybrid drivers talking some 'funky' language about wholesale changes in driving and tire pressure and all this crap -when all they wanna do is buy a new car.

Didnt we purchase the hybrid for the enviroment? We all know the price was trumped up so that we have to drive about 100k miles to make up the diff in gas savings.

Automakers , nor consumers can take these overinflated numbers seriously as what an average consumer would do. I guess im asking for too much for all of us just to drive the **** things and report what we get as 'real world' without all the ego feeding ridiculous gyrations.

There are good common sense suggestions here to help the MPG slightly. However, there is also a bunch of nonsense and ego feeding going on that is turning off americans from buying a hybrid. This cheapens the site and takes away from the benefits that are here.

just my .02.

srry for the rant -it has been building up for some time now.

lakedude 06-04-2006 01:48 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
Different tires have different recommended and different max tire pressure ratings. It should be safe to pump up to the max. I don't think it safe to throw out a number like 51psi because not all tires are rated at 51. Mine are rated at 44 max so that is what I run them at. Many tires have a max of 35psi. It is up to the owner to check their own tires ratings and decide for themselves what is safe.

lakedude 06-04-2006 02:13 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 

Originally Posted by tomdavie
gang

thanks for the new info regarding the tire pressure. I will bump mine up to 3 psi below max sidewall. That seems reasonalbe. NOT to what some of these jokers bump it up to however.

i will NOT bring apparatus in my car like wet towels and ice just so i dont put the AC on. I will NOT spend my waking hours obsessed with being able to post the best MPG on this site or lose sight of the fact it ALREADY gets much better mileage than a regular gas car. Can we just get on with our lives without going way overboard?....bla bla bla

and


no more oil
Did the same person type both of these?

Couple of things:

1) Hypermilers might be considered a "fringe" group but me thinks we are ahead of the curve like the round earthers were years ago.

2) Hypermiling is FUN (if you are into it), like driving fast is also fun. It starts out with all these "safe" and convenient things like tire pressure. When you have a "game gauge" and you see that timing lights, tire pressure and coasting (engine on) in N all help your mileage you might start to wonder what else you can do to burn less gas (or not). Then you might start driving a little slower (still safe but not as convenient) and if it is hilly you might strart driving with the load (also safe but not as convenient).

Going farther is a matter of personal choice. If you don't want to get better mileage then don't, it is up to you. If you want the car to do all the work and not put any effort in yourself that is perfectly fine. I'm not criticizing hybrid drivers that are happy driving their hybrids like "normal" cars. To each his/her own.

What isn't fair (IMO) is to criticize those of us who do put in the effort. That is our choice (and you might be one of us someday). It is a choice I feel good about I might add. Buring less oil is cool.

brick 06-04-2006 03:00 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
Tom,
While I fully understand your desire to just drive your car and enjoy it for what it is, I don't really understand your rant, either. What is so wrong with a group of people who enjoy getting the absolute best out of their hybrid cars? What is so wrong with burning even less fuel than if the car were "just driven" as you advocate? It has been acknowledged over and over again that it's your car, you should do what you want with it. Those who take FE to the next level report their results in hopes that others will want to follow suit, not to make others feel bad about their fuel economy. In that respect, I think you are reading a bit too much between the lines.


Originally Posted by tomdavie
Even if the 'technics' can be taught, americans are not going to spend all this time 'relearing' how to drive to milk an extra mpg out of their car, and if they do -they will just use the new skills in their gas cars, defeating the purpose of driving a hybrid, as their 'state of the art' training will reap them better mileage in their gas cars. So why shell out the extra expense of the hybrid?

You got it! I offer myself as an example. I can not afford to buy myself a hybrid at the moment, and nor can I justify getting rid of my perfectly good non-hybrid car while it has so few miles on it. The reason I came to this site in the first place was to seek inspiration from you hybrid-driving folks on how to get the most out of the Accord. That said, I fully intend to buy the most efficient car that will suit my needs when the time comes. That means learning, which is why I'm still here. But how am I "defeating the purpose" of your hybrid by doing the best I can without one? Wouldn't it be great if everyone did a little better in the cars they have? Your air would be a little cleaner and your gas a little cheaper. You win, too!

In closing, everybody has a different idea of how to drive and what constitutes "good" fuel economy. This is a diverse group, and that's what adds richness to a resource such as this site. And I can't honestly say that I've seen something that would label this a group of "freaks." But to talk about "cheapening" the site and "taking away from the benefits...," that's waaaay out of line IMHO. Our focus should be learning from one another, not clashing over who is right about how the cars should be driven.

GeekGal 06-04-2006 04:06 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
Tom,

Take a deep breath, relax, release, repeat.

Every interest group has its casual lurkers, its active participants and its outright addicts (mostly harmless). This group, this site, is no different. There are PLENTY of threads for casual lurkers, there's a Glossary for any of the overly "techie" talk we sometimes divert into, and the mileage database shows both the hypermilers and the middle-of-the road Jane and Joes driving their vehicles around in various ways.

Driving a vehicle with fuel economy in mind can be done in any vehicle, hybrid or not, as you say. The fact that hybrids already get good mileage doesn't negate the desire among some/many to see "just how well can they do?" Some people's climates and driving conditions offer more "suitable" conditions for "hypermiling" than others, and some people are definitely more dedicated than others -- it's a hobby, a passion. What's wrong with them sharing their enthusiasm, just as any other hobbiest group would do? Just because someone avoids using their A/C and even offers up an alternative that s/he uses doesn't mean they're advocating we all demand the vehicle manufacturer recall our A/Cs and issue us towels and coolers instead! It's free advice -- you paid nothing for it and are free to ignore that which doesn't apply to you.

Replace "hypermiling" and "hybrid drivers" with any other interest group -- aviation; performance modifying vehicles/motorcycles; overclocking home computers; even knitting -- and you get the same results we have here... a diverse and vocal group of individuals who share some similar characteristics and interests and are enthusiastic about various topics. People posting photos of their MPG readings or FAQs on how to hypermile are doing so because they're interested, they have knowledge and they want to share it with others who may also be interested. It's no more a "Thou must comply" than a knitting site posting the latest challenging pattern or someone posting how they overclocked their brand new PC to play the latest bleeding edge computer game. It's a, "Hey, look what can be done! Isn't that cool?"

Yes, occasionally there are posts that seem to judge anyone who's getting less than XX mpg as not trying "hard enough" or "why even bother getting a hybrid". That is their belief/opinion and we're all free (there's that word again) to take it or leave it; but they do have a right to it just as others have a right to say, "No, sorry, some of those things just don't fit my commute/lifestyle/family's needs. For example, the poster who mentioned ice cold water and a wash cloth probably wouldn't advocate that a Texas family with a newborn in their vehicle leave the A/C off today as the temperature creeps towards 94+ Fahrenheit. It was simply shared as something simple one or more people do.

Also, don't assume that everyone buys a hybrid for the same reasons. Just as there are widely varied reasons people have/give for buying ANY vehicle, the reasons for purchasing a hybrid are all over the spectrum. My husband loves the fuel economy, but even more than that he loves knowing the emissions are so extremely low. Myself, I love the technology and the ability to "support" (through commerce and discussion) more fuel efficient vehicles such as gas-electric hybrids. Some people buy a hybrid because they like trying new things or saw an opportunity for savings (regardless of time scale) over a gasoline-only vehicle. There are many, many more reasons than these even.

Relax and enjoy. You're welcome here, just as the whole gamut of drivers (hybrid and non-) are. As with everything in life, your mileage may vary. ;)

Double-Trinity 06-04-2006 05:37 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 

do you honestly believe toyota or honda is going to start handing out wet towels and ice -instead of AC -on their cars. Not very constructive a suggestion huh......

Even if the 'technics' can be taught, americans are not going to spend all this time 'relearing' how to drive to milk an extra mpg out of their car, and if they do -they will just use the new skills in their gas cars, defeating the purpose of driving a hybrid, as their 'state of the art' training will reap them better mileage in their gas cars. So why shell out the extra expense of the hybrid?
To answer this question, hybrids tend to be more sensitive to changes in load, making those techniques more significant. So while they will save mileage in any car, due to the nature of how hybrids gain efficiecny by downsizing the engine, you will see a more significant difference in hybrid mileage by using techniques -- especially braking techniques that maximizes battery recharging -- than on standard cars. So while you can improve a standard car mileage with technique, the potential on hybrids for improvement is much greater.


Do you now honestly expect honda and toyota to now include classes on how to 'pulse and glide' -instead of just drive the **** car?
While I don't expect to see classes on how to pulse and glide, or other such techniques, their engineers coudl actually incorporate some of those techniques into the cruise-control system, in a way that is transparent to the driver, such as automaticallty cruising for some length of time in all-electric mode, then periodically running the engine to recharge the battery -- pulse and glide using the batteries instead of varying the momentum on the car as a means of storing energy.

Another technique mentioned on here is to cycle the air-conditoner to run on max when going downhill (I do this, as I go down a large hill every day from my house) then on a lower setting when going on the flat ground, and off when accelerating. This entire routine could be programmed into the "econ" mode on the air conditioning system, and done automatically by the car.

While suggesting peopel carry buckets of ice is a bit extreme, that doesn't mean there is not room for improvement in the air conditoining and ventilation systems. I think a lot of the need for A/C could be reduced by introducing wider, more efficient ventilation ducts throughout the car to circulate the air better. Another option would be to ventilate and cool the actual seats themselves, in addition to or instead of the whole car (cooling the people is what matters).

Hot_Georgia_2004 06-04-2006 07:01 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
Tom I know the others have already chimed in, but I've never been critical of anyone who gets, and continues to get low MPG numbers.

I know they are just enjoying their vehicles in their own way.

But I always try and help those who are asking for assistance, and was the topic of this thread.
Back when gas exceeded $1.00/gallon I bought my HCH for economic reasons.

I guess it may seem like I'm living, breathing, and constantly worry about every MPG all hour of my life.
Actually it's far from that, as Lakedude mentioned: I'm just enjoying my car.

l'll give you the respect to enjoy yours in your own way as well.

Mr. Kite 06-04-2006 09:33 PM

Re: Hypermilers - Post SAFE High FE Driving Tips
 
I appreciate all of your responses. I know some of you do some things that may seem a bit extreme. I have no problem with this as long as it doesn't piss off normal drivers. With that said, if people get pissed off when you are timing lights or timing your stops, they are just being stupid. It is not really impeding the flow of traffic. Thanks for all of your advice.


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