Nitrogen in Tires
#11
08-03-2006, 02:14 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
Yep we talked about it before.
The main points are:
Air is mostly nitrogen already anyway...
The main advantage of pure nitrogen would be lack of water vapor.
if you normally don't check your pressure it will get low and filling up with nitrogen WILL increase your mileage, but so would filling up with regular air...
The main points are:
Air is mostly nitrogen already anyway...
The main advantage of pure nitrogen would be lack of water vapor.
if you normally don't check your pressure it will get low and filling up with nitrogen WILL increase your mileage, but so would filling up with regular air...
#12
08-03-2006, 02:56 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
The AP writer is incompetent and lazy too. The article is trash (don't people have any critical reading skills?)
But there is no measure given to this "advantage". It's probably slim to none.
Originally Posted by lakedude
The main advantage of pure nitrogen would be lack of water vapor.
Last edited by njkayaker; 08-03-2006 at 02:59 PM.
#13
08-03-2006, 03:17 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
Originally Posted by njkayaker
But there is no measure given to this "advantage". It's probably slim to none.
The advantage of keeping water out of the tires is balance not mileage....
Last edited by lakedude; 08-03-2006 at 03:20 PM.
#14
08-08-2006, 10:44 AM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
From Priusonline
Here's what the Chemical & Engineerig News has to say about that:
http://pubs.acs.org/isubscribe/journ...scripts.html#1
http://pubs.acs.org/isubscribe/journ...Pressure-47857
You need an ACS subscription to read those articles.
Hmm.. you do? Nevermind.. Here's the first article:
C&E News October 25, 2004, Volume 82, Number 43 p. 88
Pressure rising for nitrogen in tires
The idea that filling your car tires with pure, dry nitrogen is much better for them than using plain old air is getting increased attention. As pointed out by reader James R. Jeitler of North Idaho College and others, tire outlets around the country are offering to replace the air in your car tires with nitrogen for about $5.00 each.
There are a number of rather lofty claims being made about nitrogen in tires. These include that pressure inside nitrogen-filled tires does not rise or fall with temperature changes, that nitrogen leaks out of tires much more slowly than air because the molecules are bigger, that nitrogen is an inert gas, and that moisture and oxygen in air cause corrosion that shortens tire life by 25 to 30%.
Some credence to the idea seems to come from the use of nitrogen in tires of race cars, jet aircraft, and some heavy trucks. Although tire-pressure advantages are mentioned for these vehicles, another reason cited here is that nitrogen will not contribute to combustion in case of a fire around the tires, as the oxygen in air would.
Nitrogen generators are available for filling tires with the gas. At least one company recommends using nitrogen that is at least 98% pure in your tires to prevent rim corrosion and road failures. The nitrogen is generated using a semipermeable membrane system that allows oxygen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor to pass through, concentrating the nitrogen. This concentrated nitrogen can then be put into your tires.
Despite the claims of industry studies demonstrating that these assertions are valid, much of what is promised seems to fly in the face of logic. Reading the literature handed out by one nitrogen promoter, Jeitler said, "I was interested to find out that nitrogen no longer obeys the gas laws that we teach in general chemistry classes, much less Graham's law of effusion."
Here's the 2nd article:
C&E News - November 14, 2005, Volume 83, Number 46, p. 62
Nitrogen claims tiresome
The claims of significant benefits from filling your car's tires with nitrogen instead of plain old air continue to fill the airways. Two alert readers have sent us a short piece aired recently by the local NBC affiliate in Philadelphia on Costco Tire Service Centers advocating nitrogen fill-ups for tires.
Photo by Burke/Triolo/Getty Images
Although Newscripts has been covering the nitrogen story for more than a year (C&EN, Oct, 25, 2004, page 88), it remains intriguing what people are saying about this practice.
“Nitrogen is four times heavier than oxygen, so those molecules are bigger and won't be able to escape through the small leaks in your tires,” claims a representative of the American Automobile Association with a straight face.
The nitrogen use yields several supposed benefits. Your tires stay inflated longer because “nitrogen is very dry,” and there will be less pressure fluctuation than you get with oxygen, it is claimed. And the moisture in oxygen not only expands and contracts, it can also prematurely corrode your tires, NBC warns.
While water vapor might build up in a tire from filling it with moisture-laden air, the water should escape from tiny leaks just like any gas. Also, of the many tires that this writer has had to buy for many cars over the years, not one has ever had to be replaced because of corrosion of the tire from the inside out.
Originally Posted by yauman
Originally Posted by Ken S
Originally Posted by yauman
Originally Posted by paul16451
Has anyone tried filling their tires with nitrogen? If so, did you see a noticeable increase in mpg? I found this article interesting:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060731/...NlYwNtZW5ld3M-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060731/...NlYwNtZW5ld3M-
http://pubs.acs.org/isubscribe/journ...scripts.html#1
http://pubs.acs.org/isubscribe/journ...Pressure-47857
C&E News October 25, 2004, Volume 82, Number 43 p. 88
Pressure rising for nitrogen in tires
The idea that filling your car tires with pure, dry nitrogen is much better for them than using plain old air is getting increased attention. As pointed out by reader James R. Jeitler of North Idaho College and others, tire outlets around the country are offering to replace the air in your car tires with nitrogen for about $5.00 each.
There are a number of rather lofty claims being made about nitrogen in tires. These include that pressure inside nitrogen-filled tires does not rise or fall with temperature changes, that nitrogen leaks out of tires much more slowly than air because the molecules are bigger, that nitrogen is an inert gas, and that moisture and oxygen in air cause corrosion that shortens tire life by 25 to 30%.
Some credence to the idea seems to come from the use of nitrogen in tires of race cars, jet aircraft, and some heavy trucks. Although tire-pressure advantages are mentioned for these vehicles, another reason cited here is that nitrogen will not contribute to combustion in case of a fire around the tires, as the oxygen in air would.
Nitrogen generators are available for filling tires with the gas. At least one company recommends using nitrogen that is at least 98% pure in your tires to prevent rim corrosion and road failures. The nitrogen is generated using a semipermeable membrane system that allows oxygen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor to pass through, concentrating the nitrogen. This concentrated nitrogen can then be put into your tires.
Despite the claims of industry studies demonstrating that these assertions are valid, much of what is promised seems to fly in the face of logic. Reading the literature handed out by one nitrogen promoter, Jeitler said, "I was interested to find out that nitrogen no longer obeys the gas laws that we teach in general chemistry classes, much less Graham's law of effusion."
Here's the 2nd article:
C&E News - November 14, 2005, Volume 83, Number 46, p. 62
Nitrogen claims tiresome
The claims of significant benefits from filling your car's tires with nitrogen instead of plain old air continue to fill the airways. Two alert readers have sent us a short piece aired recently by the local NBC affiliate in Philadelphia on Costco Tire Service Centers advocating nitrogen fill-ups for tires.
Photo by Burke/Triolo/Getty Images
Although Newscripts has been covering the nitrogen story for more than a year (C&EN, Oct, 25, 2004, page 88), it remains intriguing what people are saying about this practice.
“Nitrogen is four times heavier than oxygen, so those molecules are bigger and won't be able to escape through the small leaks in your tires,” claims a representative of the American Automobile Association with a straight face.
The nitrogen use yields several supposed benefits. Your tires stay inflated longer because “nitrogen is very dry,” and there will be less pressure fluctuation than you get with oxygen, it is claimed. And the moisture in oxygen not only expands and contracts, it can also prematurely corrode your tires, NBC warns.
While water vapor might build up in a tire from filling it with moisture-laden air, the water should escape from tiny leaks just like any gas. Also, of the many tires that this writer has had to buy for many cars over the years, not one has ever had to be replaced because of corrosion of the tire from the inside out.
Last edited by njkayaker; 08-08-2006 at 10:48 AM.
#15
08-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
I find this statement very funny.
Nitrogen gas is actually 12.5% lighter than oxygen gas for the same number of molecules (equal pressure, temp, and volume). An oxygen molecule is slightly smaller--maybe 5%.
“Nitrogen is four times heavier than oxygen, so those molecules are bigger and won't be able to escape through the small leaks in your tires,” claims a representative of the American Automobile Association with a straight face.
#16
08-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
Nitrogen is four times heavier than oxygen, so those molecules are bigger and won't be able to escape through the small leaks in your tires,” claims a representative of the American Automobile Association with a straight face.
http://www.dayah.com/periodic/
Plus when you fill up with air you are already filling up with 78% nitrogen and only 21% oxygen.
#17
08-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
The C&E article is aware of the oddity in the quote. Note the bold underline item below:
“Nitrogen is four times heavier than oxygen, so those molecules are bigger and won't be able to escape through the small leaks in your tires,” claims a representative of the American Automobile Association with a straight face.
C&E did too.
C&E is aware of this.
“Nitrogen is four times heavier than oxygen, so those molecules are bigger and won't be able to escape through the small leaks in your tires,” claims a representative of the American Automobile Association with a straight face.
Originally Posted by Mr. Kite
I find this statement very funny.
Originally Posted by lakedude
What a bunch of crap! Nitrogen is a smaller atom than oxygen!
http://www.dayah.com/periodic/
Plus when you fill up with air you are already filling up with 78% nitrogen and only 21% oxygen.
http://www.dayah.com/periodic/
Plus when you fill up with air you are already filling up with 78% nitrogen and only 21% oxygen.
Last edited by njkayaker; 08-08-2006 at 03:27 PM.
#18
08-08-2006, 04:51 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
Originally Posted by lakedude
What a bunch of crap! Nitrogen is a smaller atom than oxygen!
Here are some periodic trends from this website.
Summary of Periodic Table Trends
Moving Left --> Right
- Atomic Radius Decreases<
- Ionization Energy Increases<
- Electronegativity Increases <
- Atomic Radius Increases<
- Ionization Energy Decreases<
- Electronegativity Decreases<
#19
08-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
Mr Kite
Whoops, my face is sooo red! Smaller number of sub atomics does not mean smaller atom, learn something new every day. Unlike many people I LOVE to be corrected. I don't like false info being spread around and I really hate it if the source is me! Thanks for correcting me.
Well the real question sould be which is smaller N2 or O2? Does one leak out of tires faster? Inquiring minds want to know...
Whoops, my face is sooo red! Smaller number of sub atomics does not mean smaller atom, learn something new every day. Unlike many people I LOVE to be corrected. I don't like false info being spread around and I really hate it if the source is me! Thanks for correcting me.
Well the real question sould be which is smaller N2 or O2? Does one leak out of tires faster? Inquiring minds want to know...
#20
08-08-2006, 08:40 PM
Re: Nitrogen in Tires
Originally Posted by lakedude
Mr Kite
Whoops, my face is sooo red! Smaller number of sub atomics does not mean smaller atom, learn something new every day. Unlike many people I LOVE to be corrected. I don't like false info being spread around and I really hate it if the source is me! Thanks for correcting me.
Well the real question sould be which is smaller N2 or O2? Does one leak out of tires faster? Inquiring minds want to know...
Whoops, my face is sooo red! Smaller number of sub atomics does not mean smaller atom, learn something new every day. Unlike many people I LOVE to be corrected. I don't like false info being spread around and I really hate it if the source is me! Thanks for correcting me.
Well the real question sould be which is smaller N2 or O2? Does one leak out of tires faster? Inquiring minds want to know...
As far as molecular size, I tried to find these on the web some time ago, but was unsuccessful. I ended up looking in a Physical Chemistry book and found some tables with atomic radii and it seemed that the oxygen molecule was about 5% smaller.
I really doubt that there would be a noticable difference in the leak rates between nitrogen and oxygen. If there is, it would not be because of molecular size.
I had some detailed posts in the following thread where I was using a scientific perspective to dispute many of the claims of the nitrogen filled tires.
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/showthread.php?t=7654
Last edited by Mr. Kite; 08-08-2006 at 09:01 PM.
