Fuel Economy & Emissions Talk about the mileage database, EPA, hypermiling, gas and driving strategy.

Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

  #11  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

As Louis mentions, I think the problem is you put it in neutral, so the engine uses fuel to keep the motor running, hence using more fuel, not less. Instead do your "coast down" in gear, a higher one will let you go further with the throttle closed. Remember, the throttle has to be closed for the fuel cutoff to activate. Until the rpms drop below 1200rpm or so, the fuel should be cut off. I do this in my SAAB 9-5 all the time to maximize economy (2.3 LPT/5 spd) and get pretty good mpg with it.
 
  #12  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

Oh, one other thing - "tempered" accelerations help, but not as much as you think - the conventional ICE is more efficient with the throttle plates open a bit, so don't crawl up to speed in the lower gears. Also, shift up frequently enough to allow for the same moderate throttle opening as you gain speed, but with the rpms fairly low. This will minimize the high vacuum "pumping losses" from closed down throttle plates.

The ICE gets best mileage this way - low rpm/larger throttle opening, vs. higher rpm, throttle closed. As long as you don't open it so far as to go into acceleration enrichement. This is one reason that large engines are so inefficient around town - they go around with the throttle barely cracked open, creating huge pumping losses because of the displacement. And of course keeping your speed down on the freeway will show significant gains as wind drag goes up at the square of speed.
 

Last edited by jrb_nw; 03-13-2007 at 09:41 PM.
  #13  
Old 03-14-2007, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

It has been my experience that temperature is the most important factor when it comes to mileage. My Prius went from 50 mpg in mild weather down to just below 44 mpg in cold weather. Those numbers are averages over a tank of fuel.

For your experiments, make sure the temperature is close to the same when comparing driving methods.

Harry
 
  #14  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

I second Harry's remarks about temperature. But don't just take our word for it- the database asks you to track the temperature of your drives, so you can scan through a few people's results and see just how big a difference a little cold weather can make.
 
  #15  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

Actually non hybrid cars can give you pretty good gas mileage. Some of them give you 40+ highway mileage which is comparable to most hybrids.
Here is a list of non hybrid cars those are very good on gas:
http://www.whybuyhybrid.com/top-fuel...d-cars-in-2006
 
  #16  
Old 03-15-2007, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

rahman15,
I see TWO on that list that would be expected to average 40 or so MPG overall.
The rest would get in the 30s.
Not any of these are "comparable" to the Prius, Insight or Civic hybrids. Pretty good MPG, yes. Hybrid-like, no.
 
  #17  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:49 PM
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Talking Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

Originally Posted by rahman15 View Post
Actually non hybrid cars can give you pretty good gas mileage. Some of them give you 40+ highway mileage which is comparable to most hybrids.
Here is a list of non hybrid cars those are very good on gas:
http://www.whybuyhybrid.com/top-fuel...d-cars-in-2006

Your facts and data are wrong:
Volkswagen Golf TDI Compact 37/44
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
2007 is not available for sale in the USA.
Volkswagen New Beetle TDI Sub-Compact 37/44
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Volkswagen New Beetle (auto like our hybrids) 23/32"
Volkswagen Jetta TDI Compact 36/41
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Volkswagen Jetta (auto like our hybrids) 25/32"
Toyota Corolla Compact 32/41
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Toyota Corolla (auto like our hybrids) 20/38"
"2007 Prius (auto) 60/51"
Toyota Yaris/Vitz Sub-Compact 34/40
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Yaris (auto like our hybrids) 34/39"
"2007 Prius (auto) 60/51"
Honda Civic Sub-Compact 30/40
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Honda Civic (auto like our hybrids) 30/40"
"2007 Honda Civic Hybrid (auto) 49/51"

Bob Wilson
 
  #18  
Old 03-16-2007, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

Originally Posted by leahbeatle View Post
I second Harry's remarks about temperature. But don't just take our word for it- the database asks you to track the temperature of your drives, so you can scan through a few people's results and see just how big a difference a little cold weather can make.
Pretty right about that.

Just click on my signatures to go on a short roller-coaster ride. By the way, the Winter FE I got could have been much lower - It just so happens that I made a few winter mods on both cars.

Cheers;

MSantos
 
  #19  
Old 03-16-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

Regarding non-hybrid efficiency, I originally bought my HCH as a car which gets great mileage driven normally, but especially one which has potential for much higher.
Take the Civic for example, the new EPA shows the standard Civic as 29MPG and the hybrid as 42. Most of us do a bit better than that in our HCH's. What is the highest a stock regular Civic gets? 40? 50? While the hybrid version is good for well over 60, even exceeding 70 for some drivers.
Today gas is just under $2.50 in our area, but when it exceeds 3 or 4 /gallon those driving cars with higher potential will be better off.
 
  #20  
Old 03-20-2007, 12:43 PM
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Posts: 1,672
Default Re: Non-hybrid fuel efficiency

Originally Posted by bwilson4web View Post

Your facts and data are wrong:
Volkswagen Golf TDI Compact 37/44
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
2007 is not available for sale in the USA.
Volkswagen New Beetle TDI Sub-Compact 37/44
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Volkswagen New Beetle (auto like our hybrids) 23/32"
Volkswagen Jetta TDI Compact 36/41
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Volkswagen Jetta (auto like our hybrids) 25/32"
Toyota Corolla Compact 32/41
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Toyota Corolla (auto like our hybrids) 20/38"
"2007 Prius (auto) 60/51"
Toyota Yaris/Vitz Sub-Compact 34/40
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Yaris (auto like our hybrids) 34/39"
"2007 Prius (auto) 60/51"
Honda Civic Sub-Compact 30/40
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
"2007 Honda Civic (auto like our hybrids) 30/40"
"2007 Honda Civic Hybrid (auto) 49/51"

Bob Wilson
Actually Bob his facts and data are exactly correct and yours is somewhat skewed.

First the reasons Rahman15 is not wrong:

He said: "Actually non hybrid cars can give you pretty good gas mileage." which is true.

Then he says: " Some of them give you 40+ highway mileage..." Which is also true of about on third of the cars on his link's list.

Then he says: " ....which is comparable to most hybrids." This may seem incorrect if you cherry pick only the best mileage hybrids but if you include ALL the hybrids including the Accord, Camery and the Trucks and SUVs, it is completely true.

Bob the reason your facts and data are skewed are because you cherry picked the hybrids you used as a comparison. You also assume that everybody wants an automatic which may be true most of the time but isn't always true. I prefer and own a manual because I like to be in control and because I don't have a wife insisting that we get an automatic.

The list is titled "Top Fuel-Efficient Non-Hybrid Cars in 2006" so pointing out what is going on in 2007 is a nice update but that does not make the list wrong for 2006.
 

Last edited by lakedude; 03-20-2007 at 01:02 PM.

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