I recently bought a Honda Civic hybrid. I like the car and the ride but in the first 2600 miles I only got 41.6 miles per gal. I drive carefully to conserve fuel but cant seem to increase the mileage. The database on this site shows a lot of drivers of civic hybrids with the EPA standard and above.

I took it to the dealer and he said "The engine seems tight". Wonder where he learned that? Is there anything that could be wrong mechanically or with the computer? Or is it just the luck of the draw?

Well, there are a LOT of things that can conspire against you in a new car.

The first problem is "added friction" in a new engine as the metal moving parts are turning for the first time against other moving metal parts. They will "shear" microscopically over time and "mold" into shape against each other and friction will be reduced. My suggestion is that you change your oil at 5,000 miles to a Synthetic oil (Amsoil or Mobil 1) to help reduce friction more. I gained AT LEAST 2 extra MPG after I changed to synthetic at 5,073 miles.

Secondly, you did not mention where you live geographically - the colder your climate this time of year, the worse the MPG will be because of many factors, not the least of which is the HCH battery system not holding it's charge as well.

Third, what is your tire pressure? If you leave it at the 30 PSI recommended by Honda, you are (in the opinion of many) doing yourself a disservice and costing yourself lost MPG. Most drivers on this board who are high mileage drivers inflate their tires to 40 PSI or higher, which is a combination of still being safe yet aiding in reducing "resistance" of the road against the tires.

And there are many "tricks" involved in high MPG driving, like coasting every chance you get, using AutoStop effectively, and many other tips. Look around on this board and you will find virtually everything you need to train yourself to be a high mpg driver.

My name is Larry S also - nice to have another one on the board !! :D

Good luck and keep the faith.

I just got around 60mpg out of my first tank. I've yet to check the tire pressure and the car still has factory oil in it. The single biggest thing that you can do to raise mileage is drive different, IMO. I believe the reason I'm doing so good is that my HCH is the 3rd car I've owned with a "game gauge". I've had lots of practice. A non rush hour second shift job helps a lot as well. My numbers are real, have posted a picture of the dash gauges in the file area for non believers.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...hp?download=84

Lakedude, no doubt your techniques are important, and your results prove that.

but even the best hypermile driver in the WORLD cannot outdrive the Laws of Physics...and the increased friction of a new engine and the added resistance of lower inflated tires WILL take a toll on MPG.

Per your example, maybe with a broken-in engine and 40-45 PSI, your first tank might have been 63 or 64 versus 61..... :D

There is alot that can factor in great MPG.
Terrain, weather, block to block traffic versus open road conditions to name a few.

I'm not exactly sure the meaning of the above quote.
Do you simply drive carefully or learned to drive more efficiently?
There is a big difference.

Try this article for starters. It's written specific for the Prius, but the principles are all the same (just don't try to use the same tire pressure specs and such).

Rule #1: be patient...

Hi Larrys:

___There could be any number of reasons that you are not yet receiving EPA estimates or just a bit better mileage to date but I can bet it has more to do with your past “learned” driving techniques and experiences then the mechanical condition of your HCH. Even my Ranger XLT P/U is receiving 37 mpg on my daily commute and it has less then 5,000 miles on her.

___Let us get some more detail as to where you live, what type of drive you normally commute through (traffic, hills, speeds), temperatures and wind conditions, how long of a drive and amount of IMA used during said daily commute, A/C or defroster use, as well as what kind of mileage and type of car did you own previously etc. 41.x mpg from an HCH rated at 47/48 sounds about right for new with a std. non-trained driver imho.

___If you really want to know one way or the other, there are any number of hypermilers scattered around the country that could take you and your HCH for a drive to see what she is actually worth when driven as a hypermiler would. There isn’t a car made to date that can’t beat EPA estimates with the right driver and even the most minor of setup if any is needed. Let us know where you live and maybe one of us can hook you up. All that have responded in this thread to date have the experience to judge an automobiles mileage capabilities with nothing more then a 20 mile test drive and a game gauge for fuel economy verification.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Thanks to everyone for all the good suggestions. In response to the request for more information on my driving conditions, I have driven in the past only around 10,000 miles per year (in my Ford Explorer, which is now history!). My mileage average was around 13 city and 19 highway. Living in Los Angeles, the climate is mild. No AC or heater is necessary (usually). I drive approximately 6 miles to work each day. The terrain is down one hill in one direction and up the same hill coming home.

I increased the tire air today to 40 psi and will use synthetic oil as suggested at 5K miles. I was just wondering if perhaps the computer could be set wrong so that it does not use as much electricity as necessary during acceleration.

As to my driving habits, I have tried to utitlize the mileage gauge and adjust my presure on the gas to get it maxed out. I do not brake hard and accelerate rapidly. That is why I was surprised to be getting so low a mileage.

Hi Larrys:

___Higher pressure in your tires as well as an oil change to Mobil1 0W-20 will definitely help after a few more break in miles but it is the 6 miles to work that is killing you. A std. Civic LX/EX would probably receive on the order of 20 - 25 mpg under such a short commute. If you did in fact record your Explorer’s fuel economy for that short a commute, it was more then likely 8 - 10 mpg over that short a distance then anywhere near EPA estimates. You are doing very well indeed to achieve 41.x mpg by the sounds of it so asking for more because of some problem appears to be a waste of your time imho. Consider it a blessing that you will only fill up once a month for ~ $25.00 vs. $25.00/week in the Explorer :D

___As a small tip, don’t use the HCH’s IMA electric’s other then to enter and exit autostop and pickup some regen when needed or available. Using the electric’s to get you out of the hole faster helps in the acceleration department of course but you pay for it in blood in the fuel economy department every time that little Assist gauge lights up for a period of time. My best advice is to use it as sparingly as possible with as gentle a foot as possible. You may have heard of driving like a granny or driving with an egg between your foot and the accelerator. This is only a small part of the equation. I tend to think in terms of “driving without brakes” to achieve what I have to date. If you don’t have any brakes, you can darn well bet your driving technique would change. Your fuel economy will improve tremendously in the process as well ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Driving without brakes.

I like that.
Excellent point.

That is how I drive.
Actually the brakes on my 92 Accord lasted 3 times more miles than average according to my dealer.

Drive without brakes....that's a good analogy.
BTW
I wish there were a way for us to activate the regen without the use of mechanical brakes at all, for those few times when only a slight slowdown is required.

Wonder if possibly a brake light switch mod may be possible?

I just posted a question similar to Larry's before I read all these wonderful advices!!!

Well, I guess I will try those with my new civic too. I am a little bit frustrated doing 36 to 37 MPG only, but my hybrid just hit 6000 last week, and I am still learning how to drive better.

So besides the increase of air pressure and the syntetic oil, How can I gain speed on a green light without seeing my gauge indicate below 10 MPG on those critical seconds? When I tried to keep it up, at least over the 20MPG it seems I am driving my bike or like you said, a "granny style"... Anyway, should I go faster so I can remove my foot of the accelerator soon and see the gauge go to the 30-40-50's or should I never see the blue IMA bar and start slow (even though it will never indicate a good economy rate on those initial times..)???

Thank you all for the advices!

Still learning,

Mauricio


PS - Civic Hybrid, Live in Las Vegas, Drive every day from East to West to work about 20 miles light up hill and back (light down hill), yes we use AC (We have to). Previous car (Already gone) Mazda MPV minivan.

Steve,
I remember reading on InsightCentral that someone figured out a way to trip the sensor that activated the brake light and that caused regen to kick in. The system may be the same on the HCH.
Cheers,
Steven

Hmmmm....
Thanks Stevo, I'll have to look into that. :)

To anyone ... I'm another hybrid driver not thrilled about the mileage we're getting ... we've owned our Prius since September. The first tank of gasoline got us about 38 mpg and it's gone down from there. I understand about cold climates -- I live near Chicago, and it's been quite cold lately. The gasoline engine kicks in almost immediately when the car starts, unlike back in September. And I do understand that the parts have to break in. But another section of this Web site has Prius owners getting in the 50s and 60s in mpg, which I doubt I'll ever see with our Prius. My wife doesn't care as much as I do about this -- she's very happy with the car, which drives quite nicely. But I sure wish I had something to brag about.

Jon Ziomek

Evanston, IL <_<javascript:emoticon('%3C_%3C') javascript:emoticon(':(')

Jon,
Most of the people on the milage database that are getting 50s and 60s in the prius are taking 30min+ drives...and much of this is on the highway. Alot of what is seen in the milage database is also hightened by high milage in the summer...its coming down. One thing that must be remembered though, getting good gas milage in a hybrid requires a lifestyle change. many good hints for high milage driving can be found here https://www.greenhybrid.com/learn/civic/dri...fficiency/1.php please ask questions, someone will always have a good answer.
Cheers,
Steven

Jon,
You haven't mentioned anything about your typical driving conditions. Did you read the article I linked to earlier in the thread? Which of those techniques have you or haven't you tried or looked into?

There are a lot of Prius owners in your area...consider contacting one of them to do a 'swap' for part of a day to see if it's a car related issue or a driver related one. You should definately be doing way better than 38mpg...that's about my lowest tank ever for a high wind, first month of ownership, 75mph, cold weather trip.

Here's the article as posted on GreenHybrid.

B) Just give your car a chance to get broken-in. I have had my 04 Prius for a year now. You will see an increase in gas milage between 5,000 and 7,500 miles. Just relax and enjoy the car.

Hey Dr. Evan, Have you tried the Aquapel yet?


Ben

Does anyone knows someone (other than me) in Las Vegas that has a Civic Hybrid like mine? I would love to see how people are doing here. I raised my tire pressure to 40 and started to shift to N during situations where I have a good speed and it is kind of going down hill (in Las Vegas there is no hill...) and the mpg goes to 120+ mpg :D - but I do not turn the engine off. I got better now (43 mpg after 76 Miles) but feel like cheating the car - I guess I expected the car do around that on its own, without any major tricks. Anyway, I would like to meet with another Civic owner. It would be very nice. Anyone there?

still looking,

Mauricio

No, Ben, I haven't...Was it you that suggested the Aquapel? If so, how/what do you think is better about it than Rain-X? I've got a years worth of Rain-X product sitting in the garage so I'm not keen on switching products unnecessarily, but if it is a lot superior I would give it a try.

Re: Not satisfied
 

Just thought I would bring you all up to date on my civic hybrid mileage. I have around 10,000 miles on the car and th e overall average is 41 m/gal. However, last week I took a trip of 900 miles and got 48 m/gal ! I think it was due to my actively trying to keep the gauge as high as possible and accelerating slowly.:)

Larry

Re: Not satisfied
 

Some things to remember about the FE data on this site, and all other similar hybrid-interest sites, is that it is..

1. Probably biased. Submitting data is purely voluntary and there is no dependable way to evaluate weather the samples (data submitted) are representative of the population (all hybrids).
2. Probably at the high end of FE results. Since there is little incentive to go to the bother of posting data, I bet that only those folks who like their vehicle and are satisfied (with FE etc) bother to post. Those who are unsatisfied probably don't post, don't post as often, or get rid of the vehicle. If there is an incentive, it is to brag about how efficient you are. This site even gives out gold stars and the title HYPERMILER!
3. Sample size is too small. Only for the Prius and Civic, and maybe the Camary and Accord, is enough data from different vehicles present to generate reasonably confident statistics even within the samples themselves. Examining the Prius data for example I noticed that nearly 1/2 of the submitted vehicles have recorded 5 or fewer tanks of data. Anyway, because of the inherent bias of the data, we cannot know what the statistics reveal.
4. Putting the data in is a minor pain but a pain nonetheless. I am about 10 tanks behind.
5. Individual driving conditions & habits vary widely. I never expect to be listed as a Hypermiler because my commute is only 7 miles over hilly country. A short commute is good for the environment but bad for the Gold Star! But I love my HAH and get a blast every day in that 15 min. It's why I post data (see #2 above).

Re: Not satisfied
 

This is an important point that to some extent I would like to agree as long as we also recognize those who also faithfully record low mileage. We have a number of them in the 01-03 Prius group:
Demming had pointed out the problem with rewards:
I saw this first hand when I noticed that my first tank was the only tank keeping me from getting a hypermiler star at exactly 3,000 miles. I asked and was soundly told, "No, every tank is important." so I kept the data. Three weeks later, I had my hypermiler star but I realized that some folks were using it as part of a 'pecking order.' Indeed I've been criticized for not having a sufficiently high mileage as other 'experts' when I've criticized extreme driving.

I'm not ready to 'give up' my star not because it has any special merit but because those who are ego and status driven need the insights I share with them. The 'star' can sometimes enable their hearing, if not their understanding. As for the critics, my 'star' puts them in the position of claiming, "You're mileage is not good enough to have an opinion in spite of your hypermiler star." <GRINS>

But there are techniques that I can show to give anyone an excellent answer. I can show you how to get an MFD of full bars and a mileage display showing "100 mpg." It takes about two hours but once you've done it and taken the photos, keep them handy or make them thumbnails for your signature. It is easy to do.

Bob Wilson

Re: Not satisfied
 

I OWN that Deming book (but can't find it at the moment :()!
Met Dr. Deming once. Sharp man, ignored by WAY too many (most) American companies, and welcomed by many Japanese ones. Draw your own conclusions.