Fuel Economy & Emissions Talk about the mileage database, EPA, hypermiling, gas and driving strategy.

Not satisfied

  #21  
Old 12-28-2004, 07:34 AM
efusco's Avatar
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Location: Nixa, MO
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Originally posted by neprius04@Dec 27th 2004 @ 11:04 PM
Hey Dr. Evan, Have you tried the Aquapel yet?


Ben
No, Ben, I haven't...Was it you that suggested the Aquapel? If so, how/what do you think is better about it than Rain-X? I've got a years worth of Rain-X product sitting in the garage so I'm not keen on switching products unnecessarily, but if it is a lot superior I would give it a try.
 
  #22  
Old 09-26-2007, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Not satisfied

Just thought I would bring you all up to date on my civic hybrid mileage. I have around 10,000 miles on the car and th e overall average is 41 m/gal. However, last week I took a trip of 900 miles and got 48 m/gal ! I think it was due to my actively trying to keep the gauge as high as possible and accelerating slowly.

Larry
 
  #23  
Old 09-27-2007, 03:07 PM
Major Uranium Miner
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Casper, Wyoming
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Default Re: Not satisfied

Some things to remember about the FE data on this site, and all other similar hybrid-interest sites, is that it is..
  1. Probably biased. Submitting data is purely voluntary and there is no dependable way to evaluate weather the samples (data submitted) are representative of the population (all hybrids).
  2. Probably at the high end of FE results. Since there is little incentive to go to the bother of posting data, I bet that only those folks who like their vehicle and are satisfied (with FE etc) bother to post. Those who are unsatisfied probably don't post, don't post as often, or get rid of the vehicle. If there is an incentive, it is to brag about how efficient you are. This site even gives out gold stars and the title HYPERMILER!
  3. Sample size is too small. Only for the Prius and Civic, and maybe the Camary and Accord, is enough data from different vehicles present to generate reasonably confident statistics even within the samples themselves. Examining the Prius data for example I noticed that nearly 1/2 of the submitted vehicles have recorded 5 or fewer tanks of data. Anyway, because of the inherent bias of the data, we cannot know what the statistics reveal.
  4. Putting the data in is a minor pain but a pain nonetheless. I am about 10 tanks behind.
  5. Individual driving conditions & habits vary widely. I never expect to be listed as a Hypermiler because my commute is only 7 miles over hilly country. A short commute is good for the environment but bad for the Gold Star! But I love my HAH and get a blast every day in that 15 min. It's why I post data (see #2 above).
 
  #24  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:30 AM
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Location: Huntsville, AL
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Default Re: Not satisfied

This is an important point that to some extent I would like to agree as long as we also recognize those who also faithfully record low mileage. We have a number of them in the 01-03 Prius group:
Originally Posted by owenscasper View Post
. . .
I bet that only those folks who like their vehicle and are satisfied (with FE etc) bother to post. Those who are unsatisfied probably don't post, don't post as often, or get rid of the vehicle. If there is an incentive, it is to brag about how efficient you are. This site even gives out gold stars and the title HYPERMILER!
Demming had pointed out the problem with rewards:
Originally Posted by paper_on_quality
. . . Dr. W. Edwards Deming, in his book Out of the
Crisis (see Deming, 1986, pp. 109 – 114), gives an excellent example of
this. According to Dr. Deming, employee rating is constantly done
incorrrectly by supervisors, mostly because they do not understand the implications
and effects of statistical procedures. Dr. Deming’s red bead experiment
(duplicated below) shows clearly that merit increases can be extremely
unjust (especially if neither statistics nor control charts are used). Dr.
Deming says:
“...apparent differences between people arise almost entirely from
action of the system that they work in, not from the people themselves.
If the work of a group forms a statistical system [none are outside
the limits and there are no patterns], then the prize [special recognition
for a job well done] would be merely a lottery . . . To call it an award of
merit when the selection is merely a lottery, however, is to demoralize
the whole force, prize winners included. Everybody will suppose that
there are good reasons for the selection and will be trying to explain
and reduce differences between [people]. This would be a futile exercise
when the only differences are random deviations.…
What is worse, anybody that would seek a cause would come up
with an answer, action on which could only make things worse henceforth.”
I saw this first hand when I noticed that my first tank was the only tank keeping me from getting a hypermiler star at exactly 3,000 miles. I asked and was soundly told, "No, every tank is important." so I kept the data. Three weeks later, I had my hypermiler star but I realized that some folks were using it as part of a 'pecking order.' Indeed I've been criticized for not having a sufficiently high mileage as other 'experts' when I've criticized extreme driving.

I'm not ready to 'give up' my star not because it has any special merit but because those who are ego and status driven need the insights I share with them. The 'star' can sometimes enable their hearing, if not their understanding. As for the critics, my 'star' puts them in the position of claiming, "You're mileage is not good enough to have an opinion in spite of your hypermiler star." <GRINS>

But there are techniques that I can show to give anyone an excellent answer. I can show you how to get an MFD of full bars and a mileage display showing "100 mpg." It takes about two hours but once you've done it and taken the photos, keep them handy or make them thumbnails for your signature. It is easy to do.

Bob Wilson
 

Last edited by bwilson4web; 09-29-2007 at 10:37 AM.
  #25  
Old 09-29-2007, 08:46 AM
Energy Independence
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,282
Default Re: Not satisfied

I OWN that Deming book (but can't find it at the moment )!
Met Dr. Deming once. Sharp man, ignored by WAY too many (most) American companies, and welcomed by many Japanese ones. Draw your own conclusions.
 
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