Industry Insider Jumpin' In
#1
09-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Hello All!! Martin reporting for duty 
First, let me get all the "disclaimer" stuff out of the way......
WHAT I AM:
Martin
btw - If you haven't already guessed...........I live in Detroit !!
First, let me get all the "disclaimer" stuff out of the way......
WHAT I AM:
- An employee of General Motors<
- Involved in the planning of hybrid vehicle programs<
- A believer in the merits of hybrid technology<
- A champion of many technologies focused on improving vehicle fuel economy<
- A champion of many technologies focused on improving vehicle emissions<
- Hell-bent on separating fact from emotion<
- One helluva nice guy<
- I am NOT the official voice of General Motors on issues related to hybrids. That would be the GM Office of Communications and/or several of the key officers of the company.<
- I am NOT the official voice of General Motors on issues related to hybrids. Just thought that merits repeating.<
- I am not prone to believe everything I hear about hybrids. I look for facts and data to back up impressions and opinions.<
- I am not a source of "insider" information on product programs. I LOVE my job and would like to keep it. Most of what I can offer is information that is available somewhere in the public domain. Don't expect to see any classified secrets flying out of this corner.<
- I see a lot of mis-information on the internet wrt domestic automakers and whether or not they are serious or not about fuel economy and hybrids. Most of it is incorrect.<
- I want to learn how people use their hybrid vehicles, what you all like about them, what you dislike, and what can / should be improved.<
- I see a lot of opinion that basically boils down to "GM/Ford/DCX=evil....Toyota/Honda=salvation". I don't expect to change peoples' opinions, but I would like to be able to provide enough facts to set out food for thought.<
- I'm not signed up to enough internet newsgroups (blatant lie
)<
Martin
btw - If you haven't already guessed...........I live in Detroit !!
Last edited by martinjlm; 09-02-2005 at 01:51 PM.
#2
09-02-2005, 01:53 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Hey, Martin, welcome aboard. I hope we can "edu-ma-cate" you as to how the SERIOUS Hybrid advocates feel about things.....Ask away !!!
P.S. Bein' that you are One Helluva Nice Guy, you and I have something in common already !!!
P.S. Bein' that you are One Helluva Nice Guy, you and I have something in common already !!!
#3
09-02-2005, 01:56 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Welcome to GreenHybrid, and thanks for such a thorough introduction.
I especially appreciate the comment
"I am NOT the official voice of General Motors on issues related to hybrids. That would be the GM Office of Communications and/or several of the key officers of the company."
My guess is you may end up repeating that every so often.
I especially appreciate the comment
"I am NOT the official voice of General Motors on issues related to hybrids. That would be the GM Office of Communications and/or several of the key officers of the company."
My guess is you may end up repeating that every so often.
#5
09-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Hi and welcome.
As a fellow hater of misinformation lets get to work cleaning up the mess and leaving only the facts.
Someone mentioned that the HAH which gets horrible mileage by hybrid standards still gets better mileage than most if not all GM products. Is this correct?
As a fellow hater of misinformation lets get to work cleaning up the mess and leaving only the facts.
Someone mentioned that the HAH which gets horrible mileage by hybrid standards still gets better mileage than most if not all GM products. Is this correct?
#6
09-02-2005, 06:26 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Hi Martinjlm:
___Ok Martin, lets put it all on the table. Do you want the Saturn Vue w/ BAS to nail a 30 mpg city/highway EPA estimate or does GM want to play games and lose another franchise to the Japanese competitors? The **** company is on life support now. Another 5 years of this and there won’t be a GM including the hundreds of thousands of jobs that go along with it! I know how to receive 30 + city or highway in the 4WD Acura MDX and the VUE w/ a BAS will do better if your friends pull their heads out of their collective @$$es and design the **** thing as a hypermiler drives! It pisses me off to see what GM is doing to their automobile lineup. Has Wagoner been living in a cave the last 3 years? Large Rear Wheel drive platforms to save the GM of the future? May as well just close up shop now and save everyone the headache …
___Sorry to rant but a simple BAS can achieve far better then just 10% > then a non-BAS equipped GM automobile if you design it right! You will have to get your work buds to think outside the box. Have your team rent, purchase, beg, borrow, steal, or whatever a Prius II and hypermile the hell out of it for a few days. The Hypermiling techniques used are posted all over GH as to how the really big numbers are accomplished. Do the same with an Insight and HCH. After that, get into a non-hybrid Honda Accord and hypermile it too. While your at it, hypermile a Ranger P/U. I don’t care what it is, learn ALL the techniques (EACH and EVERY **** ONE OF THEM) and incorporate them into the GM BAS design. Once you figure out how to nail down 110 mpg segments in the Prius II and Insight, 70 + mpg tanks in the HCH, and 50 + mpg tanks in the Accord, mimic the technique(s) with the inexpensive BAS and you have it! Inexpensive solutions to a really simple problem although I am just shooting from the hip … And achieving the same each and every day in and around Chicago proper. You don’t need to know much about what is liked and isn’t liked. The Car mags will tell you all you need to know about that. What you do need to do is to get the FE up and I mean up right ****ed now! You guys have the talent but there is only a small window before the games up and that window has already started to close. Now go out and do it with extreme prejudice before we lose another great American corporation AND industry because of shear stupidity
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Ok Martin, lets put it all on the table. Do you want the Saturn Vue w/ BAS to nail a 30 mpg city/highway EPA estimate or does GM want to play games and lose another franchise to the Japanese competitors? The **** company is on life support now. Another 5 years of this and there won’t be a GM including the hundreds of thousands of jobs that go along with it! I know how to receive 30 + city or highway in the 4WD Acura MDX and the VUE w/ a BAS will do better if your friends pull their heads out of their collective @$$es and design the **** thing as a hypermiler drives! It pisses me off to see what GM is doing to their automobile lineup. Has Wagoner been living in a cave the last 3 years? Large Rear Wheel drive platforms to save the GM of the future? May as well just close up shop now and save everyone the headache …
___Sorry to rant but a simple BAS can achieve far better then just 10% > then a non-BAS equipped GM automobile if you design it right! You will have to get your work buds to think outside the box. Have your team rent, purchase, beg, borrow, steal, or whatever a Prius II and hypermile the hell out of it for a few days. The Hypermiling techniques used are posted all over GH as to how the really big numbers are accomplished. Do the same with an Insight and HCH. After that, get into a non-hybrid Honda Accord and hypermile it too. While your at it, hypermile a Ranger P/U. I don’t care what it is, learn ALL the techniques (EACH and EVERY **** ONE OF THEM) and incorporate them into the GM BAS design. Once you figure out how to nail down 110 mpg segments in the Prius II and Insight, 70 + mpg tanks in the HCH, and 50 + mpg tanks in the Accord, mimic the technique(s) with the inexpensive BAS and you have it! Inexpensive solutions to a really simple problem although I am just shooting from the hip … And achieving the same each and every day in and around Chicago proper. You don’t need to know much about what is liked and isn’t liked. The Car mags will tell you all you need to know about that. What you do need to do is to get the FE up and I mean up right ****ed now! You guys have the talent but there is only a small window before the games up and that window has already started to close. Now go out and do it with extreme prejudice before we lose another great American corporation AND industry because of shear stupidity
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Last edited by xcel; 09-02-2005 at 06:31 PM.
#7
09-02-2005, 06:49 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Originally Posted by xcel
Hi Martinjlm:
___Ok Martin, lets put it all on the table. Do you want the Saturn Vue w/ BAS to nail a 30 mpg city/highway EPA estimate or does GM want to play games and lose another franchise to the Japanese competitors? The **** company is on life support now. Another 5 years of this and there won’t be a GM including the hundreds of thousands of jobs that go along with it! I know how to receive 30 + city or highway in the 4WD Acura MDX and the VUE w/ a BAS will do better if your friends pull their heads out of their collective @$$es and design the **** thing as a hypermiler drives! It pisses me off to see what GM is doing to their automobile lineup. Has Wagoner been living in a cave the last 3 years? Large Rear Wheel drive platforms to save the GM of the future? May as well just close up shop now and save everyone the headache …
___Sorry to rant but a simple BAS can achieve far better then just 10% > then a non-BAS equipped GM automobile if you design it right! You will have to get your work buds to think outside the box. Have your team rent, purchase, beg, borrow, steal, or whatever a Prius II and hypermile the hell out of it for a few days. The Hypermiling techniques used are posted all over GH as to how the really big numbers are accomplished. Do the same with an Insight and HCH. After that, get into a non-hybrid Honda Accord and hypermile it too. While your at it, hypermile a Ranger P/U. I don’t care what it is, learn ALL the techniques (EACH and EVERY **** ONE OF THEM) and incorporate them into the GM BAS design. Once you figure out how to nail down 110 mpg segments in the Prius II and Insight, 70 + mpg tanks in the HCH, and 50 + mpg tanks in the Accord, mimic the technique(s) with the inexpensive BAS and you have it! Inexpensive solutions to a really simple problem although I am just shooting from the hip … And achieving the same each and every day in and around Chicago proper. You don’t need to know much about what is liked and isn’t liked. The Car mags will tell you all you need to know about that. What you do need to do is to get the FE up and I mean up right ****ed now! You guys have the talent but there is only a small window before the games up and that window has already started to close. Now go out and do it with extreme prejudice before we lose another great American corporation AND industry because of shear stupidity
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Ok Martin, lets put it all on the table. Do you want the Saturn Vue w/ BAS to nail a 30 mpg city/highway EPA estimate or does GM want to play games and lose another franchise to the Japanese competitors? The **** company is on life support now. Another 5 years of this and there won’t be a GM including the hundreds of thousands of jobs that go along with it! I know how to receive 30 + city or highway in the 4WD Acura MDX and the VUE w/ a BAS will do better if your friends pull their heads out of their collective @$$es and design the **** thing as a hypermiler drives! It pisses me off to see what GM is doing to their automobile lineup. Has Wagoner been living in a cave the last 3 years? Large Rear Wheel drive platforms to save the GM of the future? May as well just close up shop now and save everyone the headache …
___Sorry to rant but a simple BAS can achieve far better then just 10% > then a non-BAS equipped GM automobile if you design it right! You will have to get your work buds to think outside the box. Have your team rent, purchase, beg, borrow, steal, or whatever a Prius II and hypermile the hell out of it for a few days. The Hypermiling techniques used are posted all over GH as to how the really big numbers are accomplished. Do the same with an Insight and HCH. After that, get into a non-hybrid Honda Accord and hypermile it too. While your at it, hypermile a Ranger P/U. I don’t care what it is, learn ALL the techniques (EACH and EVERY **** ONE OF THEM) and incorporate them into the GM BAS design. Once you figure out how to nail down 110 mpg segments in the Prius II and Insight, 70 + mpg tanks in the HCH, and 50 + mpg tanks in the Accord, mimic the technique(s) with the inexpensive BAS and you have it! Inexpensive solutions to a really simple problem although I am just shooting from the hip … And achieving the same each and every day in and around Chicago proper. You don’t need to know much about what is liked and isn’t liked. The Car mags will tell you all you need to know about that. What you do need to do is to get the FE up and I mean up right ****ed now! You guys have the talent but there is only a small window before the games up and that window has already started to close. Now go out and do it with extreme prejudice before we lose another great American corporation AND industry because of shear stupidity
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Luv your energy! Here's what I can say about the Saturn VUE Green Line (BAS). The "design" is basically locked and loaded. One of the things inherent in the auto industry is that tomorrow's "overnight success" was pretty much completed two years ago and the ride from there to here is all execution. For example, we knew what was going on with the Chrysler 300 2 years ago, but by then it's too late to do something "all new" to stop it.
Back on point.....The BAS design is locked and loaded and in the implementation and final validation stages. The test vehicles that I am aware of are exceeding our internal targets for f/e improvement. There's a lot of noise in the press about what a BAS system can deliver and numbers like 10% and 12% are being tossed around. Well, that depends on what you're talking about. Are you talking about the system fundamentals, hardware, software, etc or are you talking about the VEHICLE system? As with the Prius, Escape, Highlander RX, etc, there are vehicle modifications that enhance the hybrid (yes I'm calling the BAS a hybrid) experience. Given what I've seen of the total package, I'm confident about delivering a 30 mpg vehicle.
Remember....."I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to hybrid vehicle issues".
Peace,
Martin
#8
09-02-2005, 07:04 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Hi Martin.
Every hybrid enthusiast is welcomed with open arms. People who want to improve auto emmisons and fuel economy -- even better.
As for GM .. I gave up on that company years ago when engineering progress took back seat to marketing exploitation of the company's assets and the consumer. I think that it only survives through lobbying largesse, misplaced patriotism, and disinformation to keep the status quo; cloaked in the pimps' refrain of "supplying customer wants". I am happy to be proven wrong in the future.
Every hybrid enthusiast is welcomed with open arms. People who want to improve auto emmisons and fuel economy -- even better.
As for GM .. I gave up on that company years ago when engineering progress took back seat to marketing exploitation of the company's assets and the consumer. I think that it only survives through lobbying largesse, misplaced patriotism, and disinformation to keep the status quo; cloaked in the pimps' refrain of "supplying customer wants". I am happy to be proven wrong in the future.
#9
09-02-2005, 07:16 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Wow, nice welcome Wayne!
I wonder why you got your question answered but he skipped right over mine....
What the heck is a BAS? If an acronym isn't in our glossary you are not allowed to use it!
I wonder why you got your question answered but he skipped right over mine....
What the heck is a BAS? If an acronym isn't in our glossary you are not allowed to use it!
#10
09-02-2005, 07:21 PM
Re: Industry Insider Jumpin' In
Originally Posted by lakedude
Hi and welcome.
As a fellow hater of misinformation lets get to work cleaning up the mess and leaving only the facts.
Someone mentioned that the HAH which gets horrible mileage by hybrid standards still gets better mileage than most if not all GM products. Is this correct?
As a fellow hater of misinformation lets get to work cleaning up the mess and leaving only the facts.
Someone mentioned that the HAH which gets horrible mileage by hybrid standards still gets better mileage than most if not all GM products. Is this correct?
onward:
I have bought and loved and stood by American vehicles since my first Schwinn coaster brake bike. I possibly gave up a large chunk of my inheritance and forced my ancestors to roll in their graves when I bought my HAH. As personal testimony that speaks volumes.
I am waiting with baited breath to dump my Explorer for the 1st American regular-sized (as in 3rd row seats) crossover/minivan/SUV that gets > 30mpg combined. Hybrid or not- just give me the comforts my family demands and the efficiency I have to go to Tokyo for. (In Detroit's defense, of course even Tokyo doesn't get near 30 yet...even the Odyssey)
Take the Uplander and put in cylinder management and coast/idle stop (any time the foot is off the gas for > few seconds, not the speed setpoints Honda has. Give me an override switch so I can keep the engine on if I need it, too!), and there's 90% of the ballgame. Electric motors not even needed- just high voltage/fast ignition. Xcel has the whole ball of wax about how to get screaming mpgs from any vehicle. But toss electric drive in, a la Toyota/Ford for city/low-speed driving, and you've got yourself one American who would be more than happy to walk back into a Chevy dealer.
There are legions of far-visioned engineers in Detroit; they must be given more than a token say in the direction of the company. My view of Detroit right now is that the innovative, efficient designs and their engineers are only rolled out of the back lab when the front office wants to show how 'green' they are for PR. I know that can't be true; I beg you to PROVE that to the world!
I know a business is about the bottom line, and the market demands most attention to be drawn to short-term bottom lines. But sometimes, when you are a juggernaut, there is a higher responsibility to take a long view and occasionally, politely, tell your investors and the analysts to stuff it and trust that your long plan will pay off.
I think you would be hard pressed to find a rational person who is not rooting at some level for Detroit to prove itself to be the best in the world again. Don't talk about it and show pretty demos and concept cars- give us those vehicles!
Last edited by gonavy; 09-02-2005 at 07:26 PM.
