Hi Martin:

___Johnson/Evinrude used to work 4 + years out. They are now a dead company. I understand the VUE w/ BAS is locked down or darn close to it. It is also time to play a little catch up and pass today, not next year, and not 4 years from now. Once Toyota learns how to lock up MG1 at speeds > 41 mph, they are going to achieve yet another jump in highway FE throughout their HSD lineup. The pack, inverter, controller’s, MGSet’s, and CVT aren’t getting more expensive, they are becoming less expensive by the day!

___You have heard of the Toyota VITZ, right? Maybe you need to get your buds to work on that Ecotech 4 in the Cobalt for a bit more FE straight up and then BAS that! 25/34 in a 2.2 L w/ a stick isn’t worth the effort of advertising its FE! Those numbers just match my far more refined and powerful 2.4 in the Accord w/ Auto and she’s a full blown Tier II/Bin2 rated PZEV! Even 40 mpg isn’t going to cut it anymore. Honda and Toyota both offer that in their non-hybrid Corolla and Civic today. It is time to nail down 45 - 50. Without it, GM is heading down a seriously compromised path

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Lakedude,

I can take a hint

BAS = Belt Alternator Starter. The traditional alternator in the engine accesory drive is replaced by a combination alternator / starter / electric motor. It's primary functions are to

1. Restart the engine after it has been stopped at idle, like at a light.<<<
2. Provide power assist to the ICE under certain situations.<<<
3. Replenish battery storage.<<<

In the Saturn Green Line version, the BAS does not provide independent tractive effort (the vehicle doesn't move by electric power only) but it does provide power assist to the engine.

The Honda system is, I believe, a FAS system. FAS = Flywheel Alternator Starter. This puts the mechanism that restarts the engine between the engine and the transmission, as opposed to on the accesory drive like a BAS.

As for your second question, depends on perspective and value placement. I pulled acomparison from fueleconomy.gov. I included

1. Chevy Malibu - 3.5L V6 4 spd auto
2. Honda Accord Hybrid
3. Chevy Cobalt 2.2L L4, 5 spd manual
4. Honda Civic 1.7L L4 5 spd manual

If you go from the sticker numbers, the Honda Accord Hybrid (29/37) is obviously better than the Malibu(22/32). The Honda Civic (32/38) is obviously better than the Cobalt (25/34). But if you go by what the owners say, the Honda is only slightly better (29.6 v 28), but according (no pun intended) to some Accord owners, they're seeing less fuel economy than the base Malibu. The HAH range is 22 mpg - 42 mpg. I picked the Malibu for comparison because it is considerd to be in the same market segment as the base Accord. Apples to apples. I added the Civic and Cobalt because they are both evidence that comparable fuel economy can be had by selecting smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. Basically, the European solution. Oddly enough, the owner reported f/e for the Cobalt (42 mpg)was significantly better than the owner reported f/e for the Civic 39.2). These were sample sizes of one in each case, but surprising nonetheless. New meaning to the phrase "your mileage may vary".


Peace,

Martin

 

I have to agree with Wayne on this one. The GM fleet numbers have to jump up drasticly. Stating they have a lot of cars in the 30+ mpg range isn't realy that impressive. 30+ mpg is pretty average and I think the comercial stated the 30+mpg claim was based on highway numbers.

I owned two Geo metro's before my civic hybrid. It was a nice cheap car with great FE and set the bar for the FE I expected in my next car. I wish GM would have offerings in all niches not just in the most trendy one.

Is the Metro still made? I haven't heard much about it in a while. BTW, the civic cost as much as both of the metros combined. So GM can do a good job when its focused. Too bad they decided to totaly disolve the geo division.

 

Maybe GM could team up with suzuki again.

 

BTW. Excellent description of BAS. I added it to the glossary. I hope you don't mind. If you do we can delete it.

 

The Geo line, if memory serves me ..

Metro was a rebadged Suzuki Swift
Prizm was a rebadged Toyota Corolla

 

Martinjlm said:

I would give you another "sample size of one" example, but it seems that GH's Compare section is broken at the moment.

What I intend to show should be obvious though... a sample size of "one" is utterly worthless. There are HCH drivers with lifetime averages of over 60mpg, and there are HCH drivers with lifetime averages of under 35mpg. That's "one" car, driven by two different people, at the extremes.

Comparing one model of car to another, with a sample of one from each model is... pointless.

 

Ok Martin thanks for answering, and thanks to Tom for adding BAS to the glossary.

 

Different industry, different development cycles. GM vehicle development cycles are pretty much the same as the rest of the auto industry, with flexibility to do niche vehicles faster if required. Both GM and Toyota are constrained by govt mandated testing and validation cycles. You get to a point where you have to validate your "finished" product. Once you're in that window, everything is runnign changes in the next year(s).


I'm assuming you mean Tier II LEV2 I don't think Bin2 has been defined yet. I'm aware of Bin 4 requirements, but not Bin2. Cobalt is TierII PZEV.

Peace,

Martin

 

Hi Martin:

___Sick of me yet

___Real world results:

1 week with a friends 05 AH vs. 1 week with an 04 Buick LeSabre.

2005 Accord Hybrid:

3 Friends, the AH, and an Attempt …

~ 53 mpg over ~ 1,100 miles in a week of back and forth work commutes including a day of practice … I will have to find the exact numbers but G&B didn’t want me posting that tank as his so I never paid much attention … until now of course. I will look up the details in an old E-Mail later on if you would like?

2004 Buick LeSabre:

Can't wait. Other options?

33.25 mpg over 2,269 miles although I used A/C most of the time An easy 42 - 44 mpg when well setup and driven in my daily nightmare …

___Have you ever seen an 04/05 Malibu nail the following?

AH - June 05


___In regards to the Accord’s emissions, yes.

2005 non-hybrid Accord:

CARB: SULEV - II.
EPA: Tier II - Bin 2 <-- Look at my Avatar very closely as it is the EPA sticker from the Accord’s rear window

2005 Chevy Cobalt:
CARB: LEV - II
EPA: Tier II - Bin 5

___I did not know Chevy offered the Cobalt in SULEV-II/PZEV format anywhere including CA.?

___I use the following for all EPA FE and emissions related information: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net