The Brakes Broke the Bank!
#61
01-05-2017, 11:52 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
It's generally bad grounds, that's why replacing it fixes it, you generally clean up the grounds when you redo it.
#62
12-22-2017, 05:08 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
The original poster bought a 2005 ford hybrid, I own a 2008 with same exact problem but I can't afford the 5K to repair. When is Ford held accountable for this which seems to be a manufacturing defect. I have teenagers driving this car to school. I am very concerned
#63
12-22-2017, 05:11 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
Thank you for the detailed info! I did end up finding a replacement HCU for $700 and used Magic Mechanic in north Orlando to perform the surgery for another $600. Car has driven great for 6 months. Will reply again for the place here in Orlando that got the HCU. They were great!
#64
12-22-2017, 05:19 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
Two questions first:#1 Are 5 problems out of 100,000 a manufacturing defect?#2 Your car is 10 years old, do you expect these things to last forever?
#65
12-22-2017, 06:18 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
The part can be found used for $250 or less, check eBay. Not sure what a mechanic would charge for installation.
#66
01-01-2018, 02:22 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
After reading through the thread, I would start with the basics BEFORE replacing parts. The good folks before me have done research so lets not let it go to waste. Here is a recap...
1.) Warning Lights: If you have a service or warning light, have the codes scanned. Write down the codes and then clear them.
2.) Clean Grounds: Inspect, clean and reattach ground attachment points and wires. Replace if severe corrosion.
3.) Reset ABS Module: Have mechanic perform this or DIY by going to the FORSCAN website and down load the FREE application and request the FREE user license. Get the appropriate OBD II reader interface (HS and MS canbus compatible); Amazon has these. Read through the Forscan manual to become familiar with the app. Join the Forscan forum or the Forscan Facebook group for additional support. Bottom line, reset the ABS module.
At this point, retest your braking system performance to confirm if resolved. If there are still issues then proceed to the following.
4) Brake Fluid Flush: Using the approved Ford method, flush the brake system or have a ASE certified mechanic perform this service.
5.) Reset ABS Module: After the fluid flush, reset the ABS module using Forscan (or have mechanic use their scan tool)
At this point, test your braking system performance. If there are still issues, then consider hardware, HCU or ABS module or tone ring, issues. I would not replace components before completing the above steps.
BTW, I just came across this thread as my FEH brakes are grabbing hard right before the vehicle comes to a stop. I am researching possible causes and am glad I found this thread as it gives me additional information should i need it.
Also, be sure to check out YouTube channel by FordTechMakuloco. He is former Ford service tech that has gone independent. Wealth of knowledge there.
1.) Warning Lights: If you have a service or warning light, have the codes scanned. Write down the codes and then clear them.
2.) Clean Grounds: Inspect, clean and reattach ground attachment points and wires. Replace if severe corrosion.
3.) Reset ABS Module: Have mechanic perform this or DIY by going to the FORSCAN website and down load the FREE application and request the FREE user license. Get the appropriate OBD II reader interface (HS and MS canbus compatible); Amazon has these. Read through the Forscan manual to become familiar with the app. Join the Forscan forum or the Forscan Facebook group for additional support. Bottom line, reset the ABS module.
At this point, retest your braking system performance to confirm if resolved. If there are still issues then proceed to the following.
4) Brake Fluid Flush: Using the approved Ford method, flush the brake system or have a ASE certified mechanic perform this service.
5.) Reset ABS Module: After the fluid flush, reset the ABS module using Forscan (or have mechanic use their scan tool)
At this point, test your braking system performance. If there are still issues, then consider hardware, HCU or ABS module or tone ring, issues. I would not replace components before completing the above steps.
BTW, I just came across this thread as my FEH brakes are grabbing hard right before the vehicle comes to a stop. I am researching possible causes and am glad I found this thread as it gives me additional information should i need it.
Also, be sure to check out YouTube channel by FordTechMakuloco. He is former Ford service tech that has gone independent. Wealth of knowledge there.
Last edited by Escape_Hack; 01-01-2018 at 02:28 PM.
#67
04-25-2018, 02:52 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
All,
First a disclaimer, you accept all liability for any damage you cause directly or indirectly from following these instructions and they are provided for education purposes only. You will be working with your brake system and can cause it to fail and cause an accident. If you don't understand any part of this or do not feel qualified please do not contemplate doing this procedure.
Now that the legal disclosures are out of the way... I wanted to give some insight in to what I did to fix my brakes on my FEH that kept having the issue listed above and throwing error codes about control plausibility failure.
Essentially what is happening is the ABS module is detecting that it cannot properly apply the brakes to one or more wheels and then disabling that wheels brake and the one diagonal to it. Also, it may go into safe mode where it is not controlling the brakes using the brake by wire system at all and instead you have to manually brake at the bottom of the brake peddle.
Here is what I did to fix it:
1. First, I got a CANBUS bluetooth interface. It is like the ODB error readers you can borrow from AutoZone etc, but it interfaces with your computer. You can get one here for about 11 bucks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SM8R04Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That is the hardware that will plug into your car and allow you to interface with all the different computer modules that control your car. However, you will also need software on your computer to interface with that hardware. There is a free program called FORSCAN that will interface with that bluetooth module and allow you to read DTC (Digital Trouble Codes), reset them, and also reset the ABS module.
You can get FORSCAN here and its FREE: http://www.forscan.org/
As a temporary fix, you can reset the ABS module in FORSCAN and it will start working as normal again until it decides to mess up. I typically had to reset the module then when it says to turn the key off make sure you also remove the key and open the drive door. This tends to ensure that it fully resets. Then follow the rest of the on-screen prompts.
This however, is not permanent and as soon as it got hot in the engine compartment (usually from sitting still and running the AC) it would trigger the same error.
2. I did the solution posted above of cleaning the ground connections. I actually, couldn't locate the one in the driver wheel area so I just did the other two. I used some sandpaper when I cleaned them so I removed all the dirt and gunk and also scrapped up the paint to ensure good contact. Then put the ground connectors back on. I don't know if that in itself was enough to fix my problem, but it could have been.
3. I think this was ultimately the solution for my particular case. My brake fluid had never been flushed/changed and I had 140000 miles. I flushed the brake fluid until I got perfectly clear fluid coming out. I didn't have anything to remove the fluid from the reservoir so I just got three large containers of DOT3 brake fluid and kept flushing until it came out clear.
Here is the process for that and unfortunately since this is a hybrid with a brake by wire system, and an all electric system, it is a little different and there are some important things to consider.
The way the brake by wire system works there is an electric pump that builds brake pressure into an accumulator (a place where a small amount of high pressure brake fluid is stored to be used via the electronically controlled valves in the ABS module).
If you completely empty this accumulator there is a chance you will be unable to get it to fill it back up without special tools. Therefore, ensure you understand this process before you begin.
There is also an intermediate problem before you completely empty the accumulator where you can trip a pump failure detection on the ABS module, if that occurs you can clear it by an ABS module reset and resume bleeding the brakes.
I did this as a 2 person job. One person attached some 1/4 tubing to the brake bleed valve nipple then ran it to a funnel and held it. The other person with the key on inside the vehicle would depress the brake peddle about halfway.
IMPORTANT: As soon as you hear the brake pump kick on you need to IMMEDIATELY stop and let off the brake. Again, if you keep going once that pump kicks on you will either trigger the pump failure or worst case empty the accumulator.
Wait until the pump kicks off then repeat the process. You should be pushing substantial amounts of fluid out each press. After 5 or so cycles of this you will need to stop and refill the reservoir.
IMPORTANT: Again, if it goes completely empty, you will likely both get air in the system and possibly empty the accumulator. Both of which are very bad things so its worth it to refill the reservoir more often than needed.
Continue repeating this cycle until the fluid you get out of the bleed valve is completely clear and not urine colored (or brown if this hasn't been done in a very long time). You will want to start with the driver rear wheel then the passenger rear wheel then the driver front wheel then the passenger front wheel. Whenever you finish with a wheel you will want to close the bleed valve in the middle of ejecting fluid from it so that the system is completely air free.
I used about two bottles of fluid before I finished with the first wheel. Then since I had flushed the reservoir and most of the lines doing that wheel, the other wheels took maybe 2 5 pump cycles and they were done. It took maybe an hour to do the first wheel and 30 minutes to do the other three.
You will likely have to jack up the vehicle and remove the wheel to get to the bleed valve. It can be done without doing so, but it makes it a lot easier.
Once you have bled the valves on all the tires then you just need to do an ABS module reset with step 1 and then road test it to ensure you didn't get any air in the brakes.
I hope this helps someone who gets this problem in the future. If you have any questions please let me know. Thanks!
First a disclaimer, you accept all liability for any damage you cause directly or indirectly from following these instructions and they are provided for education purposes only. You will be working with your brake system and can cause it to fail and cause an accident. If you don't understand any part of this or do not feel qualified please do not contemplate doing this procedure.
Now that the legal disclosures are out of the way... I wanted to give some insight in to what I did to fix my brakes on my FEH that kept having the issue listed above and throwing error codes about control plausibility failure.
Essentially what is happening is the ABS module is detecting that it cannot properly apply the brakes to one or more wheels and then disabling that wheels brake and the one diagonal to it. Also, it may go into safe mode where it is not controlling the brakes using the brake by wire system at all and instead you have to manually brake at the bottom of the brake peddle.
Here is what I did to fix it:
1. First, I got a CANBUS bluetooth interface. It is like the ODB error readers you can borrow from AutoZone etc, but it interfaces with your computer. You can get one here for about 11 bucks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SM8R04Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That is the hardware that will plug into your car and allow you to interface with all the different computer modules that control your car. However, you will also need software on your computer to interface with that hardware. There is a free program called FORSCAN that will interface with that bluetooth module and allow you to read DTC (Digital Trouble Codes), reset them, and also reset the ABS module.
You can get FORSCAN here and its FREE: http://www.forscan.org/
As a temporary fix, you can reset the ABS module in FORSCAN and it will start working as normal again until it decides to mess up. I typically had to reset the module then when it says to turn the key off make sure you also remove the key and open the drive door. This tends to ensure that it fully resets. Then follow the rest of the on-screen prompts.
This however, is not permanent and as soon as it got hot in the engine compartment (usually from sitting still and running the AC) it would trigger the same error.
2. I did the solution posted above of cleaning the ground connections. I actually, couldn't locate the one in the driver wheel area so I just did the other two. I used some sandpaper when I cleaned them so I removed all the dirt and gunk and also scrapped up the paint to ensure good contact. Then put the ground connectors back on. I don't know if that in itself was enough to fix my problem, but it could have been.
3. I think this was ultimately the solution for my particular case. My brake fluid had never been flushed/changed and I had 140000 miles. I flushed the brake fluid until I got perfectly clear fluid coming out. I didn't have anything to remove the fluid from the reservoir so I just got three large containers of DOT3 brake fluid and kept flushing until it came out clear.
Here is the process for that and unfortunately since this is a hybrid with a brake by wire system, and an all electric system, it is a little different and there are some important things to consider.
The way the brake by wire system works there is an electric pump that builds brake pressure into an accumulator (a place where a small amount of high pressure brake fluid is stored to be used via the electronically controlled valves in the ABS module).
If you completely empty this accumulator there is a chance you will be unable to get it to fill it back up without special tools. Therefore, ensure you understand this process before you begin.
There is also an intermediate problem before you completely empty the accumulator where you can trip a pump failure detection on the ABS module, if that occurs you can clear it by an ABS module reset and resume bleeding the brakes.
I did this as a 2 person job. One person attached some 1/4 tubing to the brake bleed valve nipple then ran it to a funnel and held it. The other person with the key on inside the vehicle would depress the brake peddle about halfway.
IMPORTANT: As soon as you hear the brake pump kick on you need to IMMEDIATELY stop and let off the brake. Again, if you keep going once that pump kicks on you will either trigger the pump failure or worst case empty the accumulator.
Wait until the pump kicks off then repeat the process. You should be pushing substantial amounts of fluid out each press. After 5 or so cycles of this you will need to stop and refill the reservoir.
IMPORTANT: Again, if it goes completely empty, you will likely both get air in the system and possibly empty the accumulator. Both of which are very bad things so its worth it to refill the reservoir more often than needed.
Continue repeating this cycle until the fluid you get out of the bleed valve is completely clear and not urine colored (or brown if this hasn't been done in a very long time). You will want to start with the driver rear wheel then the passenger rear wheel then the driver front wheel then the passenger front wheel. Whenever you finish with a wheel you will want to close the bleed valve in the middle of ejecting fluid from it so that the system is completely air free.
I used about two bottles of fluid before I finished with the first wheel. Then since I had flushed the reservoir and most of the lines doing that wheel, the other wheels took maybe 2 5 pump cycles and they were done. It took maybe an hour to do the first wheel and 30 minutes to do the other three.
You will likely have to jack up the vehicle and remove the wheel to get to the bleed valve. It can be done without doing so, but it makes it a lot easier.
Once you have bled the valves on all the tires then you just need to do an ABS module reset with step 1 and then road test it to ensure you didn't get any air in the brakes.
I hope this helps someone who gets this problem in the future. If you have any questions please let me know. Thanks!
My personal update: 11/5/2018 After 7 months, 4 tows, 5 mechanics, 2 dealerships (two bad HCU diagnosis), 1 ABS harness line and 1 ground cleaning...it was the brake hoses collapsing. I also had the brake fluid flushed to get any sediment out of the system from the brake/rotor install earlier in the year. A retail tire chain found it in less than 15 minutes. Dealerships here said that if those codes are present, Ford says to replace the HCU 1st! Will NOT even consider venturing into anything else. It's a win-win for Ford, they know this was a bad design, too expensive to recall and I believe they want these cars off the road due to liability. If they can get you in and diagnosis your car with a bad HCU 1) They are off the hook if it's not fixed and in most cases the owner takes the car off the road. 2) VIN specific and $5900 to replace HCU. 3) The part is worth more than the car, causing most people to scrap the car and possibly buy a new Ford (Not me). Big KUDOS to the dealerships who allow critical thinking and let their mechanics be mechanics. In the Louisville area, they are ARROGANT scanner readers and liars. I asked both dealerships to check the tone rings and brake lines, which both "said" they did however, it took a brake/tire store to find the front brake lines were collapsing causing the 1478/1480/2023 codes. It's been one month and no more ABS problems. I will never buy another Ford!
Last edited by Lois0697; 11-05-2018 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Additional info.
#68
07-01-2018, 04:42 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
#69
10-14-2018, 09:20 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
yeah after reading this thread I can see why FEH are going for 5k-10k cad but are suspiciously low km.... and sold AS IS.... other better hybrids out there!
#70
02-23-2019, 02:09 PM
Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!
My personal update: 11/5/2018 After 7 months, 4 tows, 5 mechanics, 2 dealerships (two bad HCU diagnosis), 1 ABS harness line and 1 ground cleaning...it was the brake hoses collapsing. I also had the brake fluid flushed to get any sediment out of the system from the brake/rotor install earlier in the year. A retail tire chain found it in less than 15 minutes. Dealerships here said that if those codes are present, Ford says to replace the HCU 1st! Will NOT even consider venturing into anything else. It's a win-win for Ford, they know this was a bad design, too expensive to recall and I believe they want these cars off the road due to liability. If they can get you in and diagnosis your car with a bad HCU 1) They are off the hook if it's not fixed and in most cases the owner takes the car off the road. 2) VIN specific and $5900 to replace HCU. 3) The part is worth more than the car, causing most people to scrap the car and possibly buy a new Ford (Not me). Big KUDOS to the dealerships who allow critical thinking and let their mechanics be mechanics. In the Louisville area, they are ARROGANT scanner readers and liars. I asked both dealerships to check the tone rings and brake lines, which both "said" they did however, it took a brake/tire store to find the front brake lines were collapsing causing the 1478/1480/2023 codes. It's been one month and no more ABS problems. I will never buy another Ford!
Normally, I wouldn't care at all about all of the fluid leaking out and causing MC to run out, but given the sensitive nature of the operation, does anyone know the official method of changing out these brake lines? even if I have to fill it up one line at a time I'm happy to do that. I am completely flushing this out. I also am wondering about some kind of HIGH temp brake fluid and possibly a heat shield to go over the control unit to keep fluid from getting too hot (?).
Any advice is welcome!
Love these little trucks!
Davey
