The Brakes Broke the Bank!

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Old 07-18-2010, 08:09 AM
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Default The Brakes Broke the Bank!

Saturday, January 23, 2010

My Ford Escape Hybrid Brake Repair Experience - The Brakes Broke the Bank!




[Editor's Note: An update to this blog post is available Here.]

I have owned my 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid since the autumn of 2004. It was one of the first few Escape Hybrids that were made available in the Washington DC metropolitan area and I was very excited to take delivery. As a long-distance commuter from Northern Virginia into the District of Columbia, owning a hybrid electric vehicle ("HEV") provides certain advantages to those of us who travel on Interstate Highway 95 / 395 each day. You see, the Virginia General Assembly approved a limited exemption for HEVs to use the high occupancy vehicle ("HOV") lanes as a single-driver for the morning and evening commutes. That perk saves me hundreds of commuting hours a year, and the fuel economy savings are an added bonus.


Except for the extremely uncomfortable seats, I have really enjoyed owning this vehicle. The Escape Hybrid has been virtually trouble free after more than 100,000 miles. Seriously. Other than regular oil changes, a set of tires, a battery, and a couple of sets of windshield wipers, there have been no major maintenance costs. That is until now...


A job change during the last year has allowed me to work from home on most days, so the first 100,000 miles were all in the initial four years that I have owned the Escape. It may come as no surprise that not long after breaking through the warranty threshold (3 years or 36,000 miles) I experienced an unusual problem with the brakes. In what seemed to be a very random circumstance, the yellow ABS and the red brake warning lamp lit and the alarm sounded. The brakes reverted to fail safe mode requiring a "pedal to the floor" effort to slow the vehicle to a safe stop at the side of the road. Not exactly comforting. Interestingly, after shutting-off the vehicle and restarting, the brakes returned to normal operation.


A talk with the Ford service manger revealed nothing. The problem did not happen again and the dealer was not aware of a brake problem. I wrote it off to gremlins and continued to drive safely for the next few months. However, once in a great while after that, the problem would reoccur; yellow ABS light, red brake warning light, audible alarm and brake pedal to the floor. The Ford dealer claimed no knowledge of a problem and it could not be reproduced.


After about 80,000 miles and several episodes of brake failure under various, but different conditions, I took it upon myself to do some research. I found Technical Service Bulletin, TSB 05-8-5 (August 5, 2005) (NHTSA ID #10017553) that discussed the problem. That upset me since the Ford service manager was apparently oblivious to a problem that was identified just a few months after I had purchased the Escape. A summary of TSB 05-8-5 states:


ABS AND BRAKE WARNING LAMP ON WITH DTC C1526 - DTC C1524 MAY ALSO BE PRESENT VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO 2/11/2005


ISSUE: Some 2005 Escape Hybrid vehicles built prior to 2/11/2005, may exhibit the yellow ABS and the red brake warning lamps illuminating after the engine is started, and an increase in brake pedal effort. Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) C1526 (Brake Pedal Travel Sensor) will be present in the ABS module, C1524 (Brake Pedal Travel Sensor Calibration Incomplete) may also be present.


ACTION: Install a revised master cylinder. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 206-06.


PART NUMBER PART NAME: 5M6Z-2140-B Master Cylinder


I kept this information in-hand and when I took the Escape to my own mechanic for its 100,000 mile maintenance service, we discussed the problem. Here's where the fun started...



My mechanic and I decided to follow the TSB advice and replace the master cylinder with the revised part. It seems that this is no ordinary master cylinder. The Escape Hybrids use an electro-hydraulic brake ("EHB") system. Because of the regenerative braking action of the HEV, the EHB system does not have a traditional master cylinder with a mechanical vacuum brake booster. The special master cylinder comes with a special price tag: $1,292.31 from Ford and a couple of hundred dollars to my mechanic to install.


With great hope that my brake problem was resolved, I drove the Escape home only to have the problem occur again several hours later. I immediately took the vehicle back to my mechanic and after reviewing the trouble codes, we discovered that installing the new master cylinder had now revealed what the real problem apparently was; the brake system's hydraulic control unit ("HCU").


If you own an Escape Hybrid, you have probably heard the HCU in action. Whenever you unlock or open the door, or switch-on the ignition key, the HCU module tests the brakes by pressurizing the hydraulic system. Four minutes after the key is switched off, the HCU discharges the pressurized fluid back into the master cylinder reservoir. Listen for the hum of the hydraulic pump if you have never noticed before.


With the HEV's regenerative braking system, the HCU controls braking by using the electric motor as a generator to recharge the batteries; the traditional friction brakes actually provide very little of the stopping. Once stopped, the HCU allows the traditional brakes to simply keep the vehicle from rolling. As you might suspect, the HCU is an integral component of the electro-hydraulic brake system and works in conjunction with the master cylinder to provide the regenerative braking and antilock braking system ("ABS") action.


The HCU is an important component of the braking system, so it carries a premium price tag. My cost from Ford? $4,587.17. Ouch! To make matters worse, bleeding the brake system of air after replacing the HCU requires special training and equipment. That's another $494.59 from Ford on top of a few hundred dollars to my mechanic for his time to install the new HCU.


There is no obvious way that I could have damaged the HCU with my very normal driving habits (i.e. no history of towing, long downhill braking, hard braking or urgent stops). The vehicle has never been involved in an accident that may have affected the device, and the HCU is not a component that should be susceptible to wear to the point of early failure. I believe that the Escape Hybrid's regenerative braking system, master cylinder and HCU are defective by design (hence the TSB) and the fault lies with Ford Motor Company. I consider this brake failure very serious and remain surprised that it is a problem that Ford had never bothered to notify me about. They certainly had no problem sending me loads of marketing material to buy a new car.


My attempts to get Ford's attention on this matter have fallen on uncaring eyes and ears. To summarize my correspondance from Ford... Since the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ("NHTSA") is not concerned (i.e. nobody has gotten killed by these defective brakes) there is no need for a recall. Therefore, Ford has no responsibility to pay for or deal with my problem. Well, thank you very much! I do not understand how Ford can claim no responsibility for this very serious and significantly dangerous issue with the vehicle's brakes.


Unfortunately, this blog post may not offer much help to the reader other than to warn you of the problem that you may be facing with your Ford Escape or Mercury Mariner Hybrid, and to possibly prepare you for the extreme sticker shock of the repair bill. Maybe YOU will have more luck getting Ford to pay your repair cost. In my case, the cost to repair the brakes was unfortunately necessary. I need the vehicle for transportation to work, it was not safe to drive without the repair, it had no value being broken, and I did not have the conscience to sell the vehicle with this very dangerous problem.


This experience has certainly soured my opinion of the Ford Motor Company. Although I have enjoyed owning several different Ford vehicles, their failure to proactively address this safety issue is rather appalling. I will not buy another Ford product after they have abandoned me with this ~$7,000 bill to repair a problem that is solely related to their poor design.


[Editor's Note: For a very good technical explanation of how the Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner Hybrid regenerative braking systems work, please visit Brake & Front End's article on Ford Hybrid Braking by Glen Beanard.]


[Editor's Note: If you have had a similar issue with your Ford Escape or Mercury Mariner Hybrid, be certain to file a complaint with the NHTSA at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/]


[Postscript (February 8, 2010): I received a nice phone call from a young woman with Ford Customer Relationships. It seems as though they had read this blog and wanted to speak with me. I'm really not certain why, because in the end, they really offered me nothing more than an apology.


It seems that it's Ford's expectation that the local dealer's service manager should have told me about the TSB when I had the vehicle in their shop for other work (He didn't.). It was also explained to me that I should have received a notice in the mail about the TSB (Not sure about you, but I have never received a notice about a TSB from any vehicle manufacturer. Marketing material, yes. Recalls, yes. TSBs, no; and certainly not from Ford for this particular brake problem.).


The Ford representative also suggested that had I come to them earlier (i.e. When the vehicle had fewer miles and before I had the dangerous condition repaired myself), they may have offered me some type of financial assistance to complete the repair. However, since I didn't, I am out the total repair costs myself. Frankly, I find this statement very difficult to believe. And why couldn't they offset some of the cost now? I have all of the receipts to prove that the repair has been completed using the recommended parts purchased directly from Ford.


The young woman from Ford Customer Relationships was very pleasant and I know that she was simply doing her job. I am grateful that she phoned me, but nothing has changed. Ford still has a very dangerous situation with this brake system failure. A failure that is by all indications a design flaw. A failure that the NHTSA has yet to take any meaningful action on. A failure that Ford has really not taken any responsibility to make right with their customers. In the end, I am still out ~$7,000 to address Ford's design problem, just to make my Escape Hybrid safe to drive.


As I explained to the young woman; I have owned Ford vehicles for many years, starting with a 1975 Thunderbird. They have all been fine, serviceable vehicles. Based on my experience with this Ford Escape Hybrid, it will be my last Ford vehicle.


If you have a Ford Escape or Mercury Mariner Hybrid, please should visit your dealer or local mechanic to see if this TSB applies to you; before you experience the fear of having your brakes resort to fail safe mode in a busy traffic situation.]


[Editor's Note: Although the problem may be unrelated, it's good to see Toyota make the right move regarding the similarly dangerous brake problem with its Prius Hybrid vehicle. From CNN: Toyota to Recall Prius Hybrid.]


[Editor's Note: I received an anonymous comment suggesting that I am crazy for expecting Ford to make good on an out-of-warranty repair. To that comment, I reply that I am certainly not crazy. This brake failure is not due to a wear-and-tear drive train component. We're not talking about a wheel bearing or exhaust pipe. This is about the critical failure of the regenerative brake system; a failure acknowledged by Ford mere months after the vehicle was manufactured (Reference TSB 05-8-5). A component failure that is not due to driver-induced damage or wear, but a design flaw. If my use of the vehicle were the cause of the braking system failure, I would accept the responsibility to pay for the repair. However, in this case, the manufacturer is clearly liable and should be responsible for making certain that the vehicle is safe to operate.


This same anonymous soul followed-up with another comment accusing me of posting this blog as a cheap attempt to coerce Ford to pay for my repair. That is not the reason that I published this information. I am much more concerned about the safety of the other Ford Escape / Mercury Mariner Hybrid owners who may not be aware of the dangerous hazard that may exist with their vehicle. I hope that this blog post will encourage them to have their vehicle checked before they experience the brake failure that has affected me and the many others I have heard from.]



Posted by Ken Yagelski at 1/23/2010
Labels: Brakes, Escape, Ford, hybrid, NHTSA, Recall, Regenerative, TSB
 
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

23 comments:





Charles Feduke said... This same exact thing happened to a co-worker of mine who drives up a couple times a week from Richmond to McLean in 2009. I am pretty sure he even said the cost to fix was $4500+ in parts alone - he opted to scrap the Escape and bought a Prius.

January 23, 2010 11:49 PM

Steve said... I'm driving a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid too, purchased in late 2004, and today my ABS & BRAKE lights came on along with the "Service Brake System" message and the dreaded "manual mode" braking. The service department at my local Ford dealer says, "needs a new master cylinder", and they were aware it's a revised part. I'll find out later this week if the new master cylinder solves the problem -- so far there's no indication it's an HCU issue.



Like you, I'm disappointed Ford hasn't addressed the brake problems proactively. Early adopters of Ford hybrid technology took a substantial risk and now that problems have cropped up as a result of faulty design Ford is ignoring their customers. Although I've been happy overall with my Escape Hybrid, I won't buy another Ford vehicle until they fix the problems with the one I have.

February 1, 2010 11:38 PM

Steve said... Follow-up: My local Ford dealer installed a new master cyclinder in my 2005 Escape Hybrid and so far that has resolved the problem without needing HCU replacement. They also gave me a substantial discount on the ridiculously overpriced $1200 master cylinder, which indicates that dealers have some discretion in how much to charge for the part.

February 12, 2010 4:42 PM

Anonymous said... I just had the same problem described above -- yesterday. When my dealer called to tell me the repair bill would be over $4,000 I nearly screamed and fell over. I'm trying to decide what to do now -- get rid of the car, or bite the bullet. Is there any place to buy a replacement HCU?

February 20, 2010 10:01 PM

Melissa Coe said... We are also dealing with this right now. Had the on and off again brake light and then they went out completely this week. We are also looking at a 4k+ repair bill for the HCU and deciding what to do about this is very hard. This is really upsetting to me and Ford needs to take some responsibility for this!

February 25, 2010 8:38 PM

Anonymous said... I had the exact same problem with my 2005 Escape Hybrid back in 2007. I took info I had collected from the internet about the problem and was told there was nothing wrong and that they had reset the computer. Several weeks later the exact same thing happened. Having a wife and two kids, I cannot have a vehicle where the brakes don't work intermittently. Needless to say, went straight to the Honda dealer, bought a Pilot and am able to stop when I apply the brakes. I files every complaint that I could find on the internet. Someone from NTSB sent me an email in January inquiring about the problem. I sent an email back but haven't heard anything since.

March 16, 2010 8:49 AM

Cool Classic Cars said... I think there is some exaggeration with this whole ford hybrid brake issue. At no point does the driver lose the brakes. Its a software issue meaning the light is coming on, its not a mechanical issue. that is why they are wanting owners (like my self) to come in so they can turn off the light. its nothing at all. media just loves to blow s*** up and make it bigger than it really is.

April 8, 2010 5:13 AM

Ken Yagelski said... "Cool Classic Cars" - Trust me, it is not an exaggeration. The regenerative brakes on my EHV resorted to fail safe mode at highway speed in traffic, which can only be described as pedal to the floor panic for the driver. When the HCU failed, my only reliable way to brake was to use the mechanical emergency brake. My mechanic and Ford confirmed that the problem was the master cylinder and HCU. There was no software issue. It is a significant matter that could have resulted in a severe injury to me or the occupants of another vehicle.

April 10, 2010 12:39 AM

Anonymous said... I have a 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid and have 24,870 miles on it. It's our family car and we drive everywhere. I'm glad I found this blog because my brakes went out on me on Friday (April, 9). I was driving into a parking garage and as I pulled in, I drove over a puddle. My 'check break system' light came on as well as my emergency break light. So I thought oh it's a sensor...drove over the water it'll be fine. Well, I'm driving up the parking garage and I'm tapping my breaks to make sure my breaks are still working and they are. As I pull into the parking space, I tapped my breaks to stop and my car keeps going. My breaks went out b/c has I tapped the break, it went to the floor. So I hit the concrete wall of the parking garage. I had my 18 month old son in the car with me. It scared me. So I didn't drive my car again for fear my breaks go out again when I'm driving and I have my son in my car. Called Ford Road Side Assistance, towing covered under my warranty. It was quite interesting how the tow company was going to try and get my car out the parking garage when the tow truck was too high to drive into the parking garage. The car is at the dealership now. Won't know anything until Monday when their "Hybrid Specialist" is there. The front bumper is scratched. No dents on the bumper...thank goodness and the air bags didn't deploy (was going less than 15 mph).

April 10, 2010 12:59 PM

Krista Johnson/Chuck Leslie said... Thank you for posting this information. I, too, have a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid and am experiencing the same problems (began 3/31/10 reoccurred 4/9/10). Spent $1000 yesterday as my dealership decided to claim it was the rear A/C evaporator core failing. My husband drove the car home and had the same thing happen to him (ABS/Brake lights/alarm) except instead of total brake failure which I had, the brakes are now thumping and shuddering. I filed an NHTSA complaint - thanks for the link. And will deal with Ford on Monday with the HCU information that everyone has provided. I take offense to Cool Classic Car's write off of this - my husband & I are commercial fisherman with plenty of driving/hauling/towing experience so we know when it's a real problem. The frightening thing is we live down a 1500 foot curving mountain road in Hawaii. "Fortunately" the failures have happened towards the bottom where we have some flatter areas to coast to the side. Higher up the hill, neither of us would still be here!

April 10, 2010 1:45 PM

Anonymous said... I sympathize with your situation - although I believe that Ford makes the best American-made cars, I have found their dealers' service departments to be poorly informed and not at all proactive. But I have to join in with some posters who question how you handled the problem and can see Ford's side in not jumping in to help. You say you first experienced the brake problem shortly after 36,000 miles. Then you let it go as you drove almost 50,000 more miles without seeking a second mechanic's opinion or doing additional research - how serious could the problem have been? Then, after getting your answer, you drove ANOTHER 20,000 miles before acting on the information you had found. The car was obviously serving its purpose, and honostly all SUVs (hybrid or not) start to hit major repair tags after 100,000 miles. I would expect a manufacturer to stand by its product and pay for a costly repair in the first years/miles after a car is purchased, but after 100,000 miles I'd also be tempted to tell a driver that he'd gotten his money's worth and needed to expect a car that old to require an investment to keep running. You got way too many miles out of that car to justify calling it a lemon.

April 11, 2010 2:01 PM

Scotto said... It happened to me last Wednesday. Fortunately I was going slow and uphill in my 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid. The killer is the 36,145 reading on my odometer. $1400 for the master cylinder and so I've left a voicemail for one of the dealership owners. This just isn't right. Wish me luck!

April 12, 2010 7:39 PM

Anonymous said... I own a 2006 MMH and had a similar issue last year. Fortunately my vehicle was still under warranty so the money did not come out of my pocket. It was an inconvenience to be sidelined without a car for some days but I guess I can live with that given some of the other posts here.

April 13, 2010 9:50 PM

Ken Yagelski said... [In response to Anonymous, April 13, 2010]



I apologize if my post was not clear, so please let me clarify.



I communicated my problem to Ford on a number of occasions, well before I had more than 100,000 miles on the vehicle. Three different dealerships serviced my vehicle before I had surpassed 50,000 miles, and many months after Ford had already issued the TSB about the brake problem. None of the Service Managers from the three different dealerships brought the matter to my attention, and all of them refused to believe that I was experiencing the brake problem that I described to them. It is my opinion that seeking the advice from service departments from three Ford dealerships, who apparently failed to even search for a related TSB, qualifies as proactive and timely on my part.



There is no doubt that this vehicle, absent the severe problem with the brakes, is a good vehicle that has served me well. As I stated in my original post, the Escape has required very little work outside of normal maintenance; and besides the very poor seating quality, it has been a very good vehicle for me. I have never suggested that the Escape Hybrid is a lemon.



What I have stated is that the Escape Hybrid has a serious defect with the regenerative braking system. A malfunction that is design related (not caused by wear and tear), and was known about by Ford mere months after the vehicle was manufactured (Reference TSB 05-8-5).



I stand by my position that this defect is very dangerous, and that Ford should have taken proactive action to address the matter.

April 26, 2010 11:57 AM

Ken Yagelski said... Apologies, my last comment was in response to Anonymous, April 11, 2010... not Anonymous, April 13, 2010. Sorry for any confusion.

April 26, 2010 11:59 AM

Anonymous said... This happened to me yesterday - completely lost brakes on my 2008 Escape Hybrid.



Any idea if it is covered on the 36,000 or the 50,000 mile warranty? I know different parts are under different mileages. I'm just under 3 years, but at 48,000 miles.



Thanks!

May 28, 2010 5:34 PM

Cassy said... Thanks for this info- intersting to find out that this is happening to others as well- I have a 2007 Escape Hybrid that started with these major issues last week- they are currently recomending replacing the master cylinder. If you are able- where can I find the tsb info?

June 1, 2010 11:47 AM

Ken Yagelski said... For those who have asked about obtaining the Technical Service Bulletins ("TSB"), please note that these documents are normally not made public by Ford. They are available to Ford dealer service departments.



You may be able to find a way to purchase the TSB document from an on line source. The summaries that I have presented in this blog are the most complete details that I could find available. For example, Ford-Trucks.com has a TSB feature with the summary for this issue located at...

http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/tsb.p.../y-2005/t-0585

June 3, 2010 11:19 AM

siva said... Hello, I recently bought a 2005 hybrid with the same issues but it is still covered by a warranty from the bmw dealership from which I bought the vehicle. The vehicle has only 27000 miles nd I don't know if it is still covered by ford warranty. Can you please advise me on what to do?

July 7, 2010 5:26 PM

Ken Yagelski said... Siva - We cannot provide vehicle repair advice. However, if you are experiencing these same brake problems with your Ford Escape Hybrid, we suggest that you return to the dealership where you purchased the vehicle as soon as possible. Provide them with the information about the Technical Service Bulletin and see if the warranty covers the very expensive repair. This situation is much too dangerous to not be addressed.

July 8, 2010 10:24 AM

Anonymous said... This is siva again. What dealership did you go to get it fixed. I am from the dc area as well.

July 8, 2010 11:17 AM

Ken Yagelski said... Siva - After three different Ford dealerships failed to address my issue, I had a qualified, independent local mechanic repair the problem.



I have been told "off the record" by mechanics who worked at Ford dealerships that the Service Managers would purposely not inform customers of TSBs that affect their vehicles in order to avoid the time and expense of performing warranty work. Based on this information and my own experience, I refuse to have any non-warranty work done by Ford. They obviously don't care that much about their customers.



Your 2005 would no longer be covered by the original warranty, so there is no need to return to a Ford dealership unless you just want to see if they will address the problem in an honest and forthright manner like they should.

July 9, 2010 10:04 AM

Howard said... Another FEH owner (2005) with the same problem here. Beep, ABS goes out and I'm in failsafe mode. Occasionally, while I'm turning, the ABS will go nuts clattering on and off before ABS goes out, but then I'm on the traditional breaking system. Since I'm aware of it, I'm fairly comfortable driving the vehicle. Won't let my wife or neice drive it though. Still, it stops fine in failsafe mode. I don't have the $$ to fix the problem so hopefully Ford pulls their head out and provides some relief. Thanks for starting this blog!

July 14, 2010 11:17 AM
 
  #3  
Old 07-18-2010, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

It is ok to share information about your experiences but...it is illegal to copy and paste complete articles.

Not all brake issues with this vehicle are related to what has been posted in this thread. Then there is the issue of the original poster mentioning the problem first arising in the 30,000 mile range but continued to drive another 50,000 miles before becoming proactive. Make your own judgement on this.
 
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

To: Stranger

The blog post you have cut and paste into this forum is from my blog (http://www.justonepointofview.com/). I did not grant permission for my work to be used on this web site.

Billyk:

I apologize that my original blog post was not more clear, but I did provide some clarity in a follow-up comment. I *DID* in fact take my FEH to three (3) different Ford dealerships well before 50,000 miles. The service managers all told me that I was crazy, and none of them mentioned the TSB (even though they *searched* the data bases), all while the TSB I mentioned had been published for many months. It was only after 100,000 miles that the frequency of the failure increased to the point that I had to pursue a repair of this design flawed brake system.

Make your own judgement on this.

Best regards to all,

Ken Yagelski
 
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

Wouldn't these components be covered by the hybrid-specific components warranty? If not, then what does the warranty cover?

RayP
 
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Old 07-18-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

Google "Ford Hybrid Warrenty"
2010 Hybrid warranty pdf, pg 9/10


Your vehicle’s unique components are covered during the Hybrid
Vehicle Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for eight years or 100,000
miles, whichever occurs first. The following parts are covered during this
extended coverage period: high-voltage battery, continuously variable
transmission and the DC/DC converter. In addition, the high-voltage battery
connector, fan assembly, thermister probe, hybrid battery pack sensor
module (HBPSM), and the battery energy control module (BECM) are
covered for the Fusion Hybrid and the Milan Hybrid only.
We've all ready learned the $20 actuator to the batt AC blend door, altho unique, is not covered outside the 3/36k

http://www.fordvehicles.com/resource...1&zoom=100,0,0
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:08 AM
Red
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

For many years Ford zone managers administered most of the after warranty consideration. Today, Ford gives each dealership an allowance that they administer for their customers and there is limited Ford involvement. Your dealership decides if they will or won't fund all (or a portion) of your repair when it is out of warranty guidelines.
The presence of a TSB does not automatically imply that a repair will be covered by Ford or the dealership.
Ford offers extended service plans for various time and mileage periods after the factory warranty expires. This may be a very good option for vehicles with high cost componentry.
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

Originally Posted by yagelski View Post
To: Stranger

The blog post you have cut and paste into this forum is from my blog (http://www.justonepointofview.com/). I did not grant permission for my work to be used on this web site.

Ken Yagelski
I'm not an expert by any means on the subject but I don't see any reference or link on that page that implies your blog is protected by any copyright.
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

It is now...

Web Site Copyright © 2010 by Yagelski Media Group. Powered by Blogger. All rights reserved. Use of this web site constitutes acceptance of the disclaimer.

Right side, down about one screen (or search for "copyright").
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: The Brakes Broke the Bank!

Thank you for pointing out the copyright notice colchiro. It has been there for quite a while.

Ken
 

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