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Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

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  #1  
Old 10-13-2009, 03:53 PM
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Default Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

I own a 2008 FEH AWD, and I am finding that I get better MPG when my FEH is NOT fighting me when I drive off from parking.

When starting the FEH the first thing in the AM, the system goes into that strange mode wherein it pretty much stabilizes the TPS and uses a lot of battery. My SOC will go below 40 pretty easily (it will bottom out at 30 or so and stop the behavior). I suppose Ford intended this to somehow help MPG, but I find it hurts.

I have even had this happen after being parked for a half hour or so and then going back out - with the engine FWT showing over 150.

The problem is that the engine then has to replenish those SOC back up to the normal 53%, and the MPG absolutely sucks while that is happening. I have had some success in getting it up to 40 MPH and then trying to glide a bit, but nothing really helps.

So my questions are:

1. Anyone know of a way to stop this behavior? My only option so far is to accelerate to around 15 MPH and then stop the FEH completely (it sometimes happens at a small light near my house). I don't particularly want to pull off to the side of the road!

2. How do you handle this situation, e.g. what techniques are effective for you in the morning?
 
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2009, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

It is my understanding that what you're seeing is ICE/catalyst warm-up routine. During this routine, propulsion is supplied mostly via electric while the engine timing and air/fuel mixture is adjusted to help the engine warm as environmentally friendly (or possibly as quick) as possible.

I do seem to remember that brisk acceleration will interrupt the routine but I'm not sure if it returns to it or not. Other than that, I have not read of any way to override this behavior. I expect it would take some form of trickery to fool the computer into thinking the system has exceeded the warm-up requirements.

I'm sure there are others here who have more specific knowledge about this and they will chime in shortly.
 
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2009, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Originally Posted by MyPart View Post
It is my understanding that what you're seeing is ICE/catalyst warm-up routine. During this routine, propulsion is supplied mostly via electric while the engine timing and air/fuel mixture is adjusted to help the engine warm as environmentally friendly (or possibly as quick) as possible.

I do seem to remember that brisk acceleration will interrupt the routine but I'm not sure if it returns to it or not. Other than that, I have not read of any way to override this behavior. I expect it would take some form of trickery to fool the computer into thinking the system has exceeded the warm-up requirements.

I'm sure there are others here who have more specific knowledge about this and they will chime in shortly.
The interesting thing is that I can interrupt it every time if I hit that stoplight that is 30 seconds from my house. If I have gotten up to speed and then have to stop, the behavior will cease. So it seems to be sensitive to some kind of speed being achieved before a stop. To me this indicates that the behavior is not directly tied to the catalytic converter warm up, or it would resume... unless there is a bug in the software program.

Also, the warm up would not really apply when the vehicle was already warm (calculated water temp over 150 at startup).
 
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2009, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Originally Posted by stevedebi View Post
Also, the warm up would not really apply when the vehicle was already warm (calculated water temp over 150 at startup).
This instance of the warm up routine may be explained by the catalyst temperature being outside of the acceptable range while the water temp is still warm. I expect the catalytic converter to cool much faster than the cylinder head/water temperature in a parked situation.
 
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2009, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

1. Anyone know of a way to stop this behavior?
I don't know if you can stop it, but there are techniques I have found that keeps my from doing this. If I keep my hybrid in the bottom of a parking ramp, where is keeps warm so it doesn't do that
Also I keep it in the sun when its over 65F, most of the time it will go into EV before leaving the parking lot (from cold start)

2. How do you handle this situation, e.g. what techniques are effective for you in the morning?
In the mornings where I can't keep my hybrid where its warm and can't plug in the engine block warmer I try to plan my trip to help the ICE to warm up and help the battery charge. So going down hills, flat roads, stop lights and stop signs.

Otherwise if it needs to warm up, then I let it warm up. It does lower my Ave MPG by about 5 MPG it seems.
 
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2009, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Originally Posted by MyPart View Post
This instance of the warm up routine may be explained by the catalyst temperature being outside of the acceptable range while the water temp is still warm. I expect the catalytic converter to cool much faster than the cylinder head/water temperature in a parked situation.
My experience -via the scanguage--the catalytic temperature exceeds 1000 F within 30 seconds. This heats up rapidly to meet Federal Emission standards. If you look in the scanguage sticky thread, GPSman1 reports the cat temp declines 1F per second when the engine is off. He also states EV has been possible at 726F temperature. I have had EV with a CAT temperature below 900F.
 
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Interesting... however living where winter temps are commonly minus 20 Deg C and lower, with everything up to temp (CAT, cyl head ect), at a stop, with motor off, the ICE will restart in as little as 30 seconds as cat et al temps rapidly drop! Given that, beware, in these colder climes the FEH is not much hybrid in the winter.
 
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2009, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

In the 2005-2007's this EV propultion is generally very helpful to MPG.

So either the 2008 is a totally different beast, you have unique conditions, or you are doing something incorrectly to not take full advantage of this "behavior". Most seasoned FEH drivers look fondly upon this 30 seconds of warm up.

So many people, maybe even some of you here, desire an EV switch to pull out of the driveway in EV mode. THIS IS basically it!

Used correctly, very little gas is used, and you are tootin' down the road at 40 MPH without using more than a drop of gas from a cold start.

I'm confused at the desire to eliminate this. It's normally helpful.

Originally Posted by stevedebi View Post
I own a 2008 FEH AWD, and I am finding that I get better MPG when my FEH is NOT fighting me when I drive off from parking.

When starting the FEH the first thing in the AM, the system goes into that strange mode wherein it pretty much stabilizes the TPS and uses a lot of battery. My SOC will go below 40 pretty easily (it will bottom out at 30 or so and stop the behavior). I suppose Ford intended this to somehow help MPG, but I find it hurts.

I have even had this happen after being parked for a half hour or so and then going back out - with the engine FWT showing over 150.

The problem is that the engine then has to replenish those SOC back up to the normal 53%, and the MPG absolutely sucks while that is happening. I have had some success in getting it up to 40 MPH and then trying to glide a bit, but nothing really helps.

So my questions are:

1. Anyone know of a way to stop this behavior? My only option so far is to accelerate to around 15 MPH and then stop the FEH completely (it sometimes happens at a small light near my house). I don't particularly want to pull off to the side of the road!

2. How do you handle this situation, e.g. what techniques are effective for you in the morning?
 
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2009, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Originally Posted by gpsman1 View Post
In the 2005-2007's this EV propultion is generally very helpful to MPG.

So either the 2008 is a totally different beast, you have unique conditions, or you are doing something incorrectly to not take full advantage of this "behavior". Most seasoned FEH drivers look fondly upon this 30 seconds of warm up.

So many people, maybe even some of you here, desire an EV switch to pull out of the driveway in EV mode. THIS IS basically it!

Used correctly, very little gas is used, and you are tootin' down the road at 40 MPH without using more than a drop of gas from a cold start.

I'm confused at the desire to eliminate this. It's normally helpful.
I must disagree. If this were pure electric, the engine would not be running. So you are using more than "a drop of gas". My TPS is generally 17 - 19 during this period.

I would like the pure electric on cold start as well, simply because then I could pull the car around to the the back of the house without starting the ICE.

I do not find it helpful. If I can avoid the "behavior", I can achieve better MPG because I'm not having to recover the SOC. I would appreciate any tips on how to "properly use" this condition.

BTW, the engine and drivetrain were not changed until 2009, so the 2008 is the same inside as the 2005-2007 FEH.
 
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2009, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Dratted Initial Electric Assist!

Originally Posted by stevedebi View Post
I would appreciate any tips on how to "properly use" this condition.
On a cold start, with engine running, using HARDLY any gas, I acclelerate to 30-40 MPH on electric only ( or mostly ) propultion. During these first 30 seconds, my MPG is off scale high = greater than 60 MPG on a Navi screen.
The electric only propultion lasts for 30 seconds, 10% battery SOC drop, or the battery SOC hits lower than 33%, whichever comes first, then the gas engine starts to take load, and MPG drops.

As soon as MPG drops, I lift the throttle pedal, and "coast" for as long as practical. MPG goes off scale high ( 60 MPG+ ) while recharging. Usually, 1-2 minutes is all that is needed to get the 10% SOC back.

Now, the car is back to "normal" and the start-up / warm-up yielded really high MPG. Not always 60 MPG, but always better than 40 MPG, which is higher than my long-term average, so I view this as a positive thing.

HTH,
-John
 
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