I'm new to the forum, but have browsed and seached for a while, and not come acrross the information I need to make an informed decision so hope some of you can help me out,

I have a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid with 126,000 miles on it. I have not had ANY real issues until now. In the past I changed my oil at the recomended 10K mark and air & a/c fileters every 20K. Every 60K it had a tune up. I've put two sets of tires on it. Ford has repalced the cooling unit on the electric motor (at about 10K) and the battery fans (at 110K). It has never used any oil (and I mean pretty much zero oil loss between changes) until the failure. Here's how it happened...

I was driving up a steep mountain road and when I was able to pass a slower moving car I stepped on the gas and passed. Shortly after that my motor shutoff wiotht he "Stop Now Safely" warnming. I pulled over. Stopped. Restarted the car. Turned around and went home (about 5 miles). There was a light tap in the engine. I Checked the oil and it was down about 2 quarts low. I was a bit surprised by this as it had not lost any oil preior to the last oil change, That was about 5K prior to the event. I took the car in to Ford and was told it had spun the bearing on cylinder number 1. A rebuild of the engine will cost $6550. It will have a three year unlimited miles warrenty.

I understand why the first cylinder spun a bearing as it was oil starved at that point. Particulary when the car was at a 45 degree angle uphill. I had been driving that same mountain road for about 18 months and had recently moved so I no longer needed to do so (just after my last maintenance on the vehicle), but I'm also wondering if there was some other reason for lossing that much oil in such a short time (when I compare it to previous usage).

I've also tried to find a rebuild kit for the engine, but have had no luck. I did find some mention of the engine being the same as a Mazda engine, but am unsure of exactly what model and if this is actually true or not. So, I'm strill trying to figure out two things:

1) Is a rebuild kit available? Or one from a Mazda engione I could use.

2) Should I even bother to try and rebuild it myself? Or just stick with the replacement motor.

As an FYI ... I have rebuilt other motors int he past, but they were cast iron engines. Aside from a motorcycle engine. I know the technology and tolerances have changed a lot and am just unsure if a home mechanic can do a proper assembly job using a machine shop to do the fine detail work. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Art

 

I've rebuilt the 1960's engines many times myself but would never think about rebuilding my '05 FEH. The engine and eCVT have to be pulled together and you can't get anything on the One-Way Clutch because it will need to be replaced according to the shop manual.

A rebuilt engine replacement would be my next choice if you think your FEH is worth pouring that much money in a car with that much mileage, I don't think so myself.

If I was given your situation I would put it for sale as is and cut my losses. Only if it was a newer model with low miles would I replace the engine and I would have Ford dealers bid on that job.

The last engine I had replaced was on my Dads '86 Mark V11 and I got the 302 long block for wholesale and found two Ford techs to do it as a side job on the weekend. That was still throwing good money after bad but my dad insisted on fixing it.

GaryG - Good Luck

 

When you spin a bearing you melt the softer metal of the bearing surface. Some of that melted metal goes elsewhere in the engine. So its a full up rebuild including a flush and verification of the oil system.

In the end this is a very common engine. Its part of the Duratec series of engines. I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to find a rebuild kit. The only difference with the FEH version is the valve timing, but a cam is a cam.

This engine with normal valve timing is in a lot of engines. If you can rebuild an engine I don't see why you can't rebuild this one. You're not dealing with aluminum cylinder walls, these have iron or steel sleeves. Its true that you'll have to pull both the engine and the transaxle, but then if you can pull a big V-8 why not a small I-4 with an attached transaxle?

The one way clutch is an issue to be solved ahead of time. Don't know about that one, but they must be out there if Ford is willing to rebuild an engine.

BTW a 45º angle? That's a 100% grade. ...And why would the #1 cylinder oil starve without damage to the other cylinders? In my FEH when I put in an oil pressure gauge it runs at a high pressure until thoroughly warmed up and then at about 20-25#.

Just doesn't make sense that one cylinder alone would starve in a pressurized system unless you regularly race the engine immediately on start up. ...And this one won't go over about 2500 rpm without load on the engine???

 

There was another thread about a '06 that spun one bearing and they were all over this owner that it was his fault. They said that it had to be because he must of had oil changes at Jiffy Lube or likes.

 

Jiffy Lube... There's a reason I do my own oil changes!

I've heard people race their engines right after start up to "get the oil going." Dumb and it also could lead to oil starvation of one or more bearings since it takes some amount of time for oil to get up & around the engine.

On this engine you can't really race like other designs but you get the idea. Particularly in the winter I allow the engine to run at idle for a minute or so. Just takes time for oil to get into all passages and out to bearings.

The road slope as a causative factor in spinning a bearing doesn't add up unless the oil sump was so low as to uncover the oil pump suction. I had a serpentine belt shred on my Suburban and cut an oil line from a bypass oil filter.

The engine slowly pumped the oil overboard. When it finally lost suction there was less than a quart in the engine based on what I added back in later. I shut down the engine within 30 seconds to a minute and there was no damage based on oil analysis (this was 130,000 miles ago).

The cause lies elsewhere, such as a startup problem. Being 2 quarts low suddenly doesn't add up either. The oil went somewhere and should have left a trail on the underside of the FEH. This stuff doesn't evaporate, at least not quickly.

 

Just an update since my last post and an appology for taking so long. Just been busy with work & family. I have tried just about everything. Can't find a rebuild kit. Can't even get a local rebuild shop to rebuild it as the VIN codes are different for the Hybrid engine and the 2.3L durotec engine. So he can't get oversize parts to rebuild it.

But I can get a refurbished engine, so someone soemwhere must make a rebuild kit for it. If anyone knows exactly what durotec engine the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid uses please let me know and I'll see if the rebuild shop can get parts for that. He'll only chaerge about 2K for a rebuild vs. 6.5K for a refurbished & installed engine.

Thanks,

Art

 

Those #s seem suspect. That's a huge difference. Rebuilding an engine is hugely labor intensive. Plus your old engine should be worth something as a cure. I don't know. Just doesn't sound right.

 

The numbers are accurate. At least every place I checked and Ford too wants $6500. Ford uses their own remanufactered engine. Everyone elses uses a Jasper remanufactured engine. It's about $4400 for the engine. The rest is labor. The 2K quote I got was what he gave me for a regular 2.3L rebuild. I'm not sure it included the labor to remove/reinstall it. I doubt it, but didn't pursue it as I didn't have a specific model engine to use as a guide to rebuild what I have. And I'm not sure if a regular 2.3L durotec engine would work as a replacement.

Which is why I'm still trying to find out exactly what model engine could be the right one. If I can find it, I can try and go form there and see if I can get mine rebuilt.

 

I do all my own wrenching so what I'd do would probably be a lot different than what you would do. For me, I'd find a similar motor from a non-hybrid and switch out the relevant parts. There would be something of a learning curve for me but I don't mind the challenge and I have a lot more time than I do money.

If that $2k was without labor to pull/replace the motor then that sounds a lot more likely. The only thing that sounds odd is that you could get a reman'd engine from Ford for as cheap as you could anywhere else. I haven't looked so I'll take your word for it. That just seems counter intuitive.

 

Ensure you look over the intake valving if you use a non-hybrid engine. The Atkinson cycle in the hybrid engine is implemented by intake valve train timing that delays closure of the intake valve. Unless the non-hybrid engine is set up the same way you will have some trouble since the software assumes such valve timing.