FEH 2009 vs 2012 - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars


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  #1  
Old 12-08-2017, 06:51 AM
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Default FEH 2009 vs 2012

I am considering purchasing either a 2009 or a 2012. The body styles and features look the same. Is one a better year than the other. They have the same milage with a 1000 miles. Both are in the 60k range. Price is about 8,900 vs 13,900. Is there any reason I should go for the 2012 over the 2009?
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

Others will have more informed opinions, but here are mine:

The 2009 is considered the best in terms of "all the good stuff" to maximize mileage.
The 2012 may have the more sophisticated management software. It lacks the "rear AC" to cool the battery, which in my mind is one less thing to fail.
I have been looking to upgrade my 2008, and will probably look for a low-miles 2012 with Navigation and 4WD.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

I wasn't aware of the 2012 not having rear A/C.

IMHO, the rear A/C is the primary reason the FEH battery is among the most reliable. The 06-08 and 09-11 Honda Civic Hybrids use the same Sanyo cells, and they are the WORST battery packs ever due to their poor cooling characteristics.

For that reason, I would NEVER consider an FEH without the rear A/C for the battery.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

Good points, but a few counterpoints:

1 - Ford engineers reasoned that the cabin would always be kept at a comfortable temperature for the passengers, and sharing that same conditioned air would be sufficient to cool the battery. I am sure they tested that premise thoroughly.
2 - The SUV cargo area of the FEH allows much more space for cabin air to circulate to the battery air intakes than does a Civic. I would be more concerned if an owner habitually kept the cargo area full, possibly restricting air flow or blocking vents
3 - I have seen no reports of battery failures on the 2010-2012 FEHs, none of which have rear AC

As I understand it, 2009 was the last with rear AC and the first with the next-gen management software.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

1 - HCH2 interior much smaller. Easier to cool. Can even direct center vents to the rear deck/battery inlet. Same assumption. Worst batteries ever.
2 - Maybe; however, battery inlet air is going to be substantially higher than the air pulled directly off an evaporator - likely 30+F hotter thus reducing the cooling potential and increasing cell temperature.
3 - 5-7 years is not a long enough time for comparison. Furthermore, if batteries were replaced, they would all likely be under warranty, and we wouldn't hear about them.

1A) Those same Ford engineers reasoned that the HV jump system wasn't needed, and they removed it. There are multiple accounts of newer models self-discharging after extended periods of sitting. I have personally encountered 3, and I have personally fixed 1 at a tiny fraction of the cost the dealership wanted when they couldn't properly operate the special dealer charger that is supposed to bring one back.
1B) Honda engineers assumed the same, and I'm sure they tested the premise thoroughly - look where that got them.

And to your point of rear A/C being one more thing to fail, I can't agree with you on that. Rear A/C has been on vehicles for decades and is pretty darn reliable. I would greatly prefer the risk of A/C failure over the HV battery failure.
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

OK, I'm sold. I'll just look for a loaded 2009.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

My thoughts on this matter:

1. the 2010-2012 FEH's have wide angle inserts in the rear view mirrors. Much nicer than stickon mirrors.

2. The 2010-2012 FEH's have a tailgate release handle near the bottom of the hatch. This reduces forces on the trim piece that bears the Ford logo. Degradation of seals from pulling on that trim piece on the previous years, to open the tailgate, is one of the most common causes of leaks that put moisture in the interior and can cause failure of the hatch latch.

3. 2010 to 2012 FEH's do not have 30 seconds of forced engine operation after startup, regardless of the conditions, as do the previous years. If all ev mode conditions are met, you can turn the key on these later years without the engine starting. If you live in a place where you can't drive far after starting without having to stop, this forced engine operation can hurt mileage. Because you'll be sitting there with the engine roaring away gobbling gas to heat things up. Better to be moving during this warmup. Such as if you live in a city and have to sit at a stop light right after you leave home. Or lots of driving with very short stops. Or starting from the top of a hill. The 2010-12's manage this much better.

4. The pre 2010's have aluminum air conditioning lines that run from the front end, under the car, to the back end. These lines are vulnerable to damage and corrosion. I had to replace mine due to corrosion, at a cost of $1800. Which wipes out an awful lot of gas price savings from having a hybrid. This may not be an issue if you live somewhere that the roads aren't salted, but I drive on treated roads half the year. And don't expect these lines to be kept in stock in your part of the continent. It can take 4 days to ship them.

5. Elimination of the rear hvac system also eliminates the gizmos used to divert refrigerant to the rear hvac. Which have been known to fail.

6. I have not heard of any decreased battery life on the 2010-2012's. Bear in mind the battery etc. still has an 8-yr warranty, and the supply of used batteries is such that they are very cheap.

7. I have heard arguments that the rear hvac system temperature conditions the hybrid battery better than the later system using passenger compartment air. And thus the controllers should be able to allow use of the regen system more of the time than with the later system. If this is so, the 2010-2012's should get worse mileage. From what I have been able to determine, the later ones actually get slightly better mileage.

8. According to Wikipedia, only about 1200 2012 FEH's were made. To find one with the navigation option may be a very long wait. Recently a 2012 Limited with AWD but not nav, and 20,000 miles on it came up for sale in the city where I live. It didn't last long on the listings.

If I lost my 2009, I would get a later one. Or a used Rav4 Hybrid.

Last edited by xspirit; 12-10-2017 at 05:20 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

The 2010 I believe, was the first with electric power steering. Also, if you get Navigation, I think beginning with 2010 it also had the rear camera, my 2009 does not.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

I believe the first generation Ford SYNC system also was installed starting MY2010.
If you have trouble finding a 2010 or 2011 FEH, there were still a few Mercury Mariner hybrids sold those model years.
In MY2009 a few hundred Mazda Tribute hybrids were sold in CA also.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: FEH 2009 vs 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaunceyjb View Post
The 2010 I believe, was the first with electric power steering. Also, if you get Navigation, I think beginning with 2010 it also had the rear camera, my 2009 does not.
My 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid has Electric Power Steering . . . .
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