FEH and cold weather question
#11
06-29-2006, 01:04 AM
Re: FEH and cold weather question
Thanks a ton to everyone who responded....I think I'll stick around and keep checking back, I am picking lots of great information here!! Gary, I had read that story about the Point Mack farm....good on 'em!! I grew up on a farm, spent lots of time around thoroughbred horse racing and every summer baling hay!! haha. I wish them all the best!!
Lori
Lori
#12
06-29-2006, 08:13 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: FEH and cold weather question
I'm about the biggest fan of the Escape Hybrid there is.. but you may be the first person I would caution against getting one.
Your summers should be nearly ideal driving weather, but winters, not so sure.
32'F to 20'F is not bad at all. You can do what I do in Colorado and block the front end with cardboard or foam so you get close to zero forced air in front. I'm sure you see diesels in your area do this all the time.
With a blocked radiator, down to 20'F I saw very little reduction in MPG.
Below 20'F down to about 5'F, I got very little EV mode driving, and about 15% lower MPG. * radiator still blocked.
At plus / minus 5 from zero, expect the gas engine to run full time.
At -15'F below zero, my FEH started easily, but performed very poorly, and even acted very strangely at times, like reving the engine to 4,000 RPM while stopped at lights, in parking lots, and at McDonald's drive-thrus. I called on Ford engineering, and they said this fast reving in cold was NOT part of the design intent, and wished to have a look, but of course, could not replicate -15'F indoors in the lab ( service bay ).
You may be okay... and I think you will have the nicest, neatest, coolest car in town... but overall, may not save much gas... but on the other hand, it is also the world's cleanest gas engine even when it is burning gas, so you won't make much pollution.
-John
Your summers should be nearly ideal driving weather, but winters, not so sure.
32'F to 20'F is not bad at all. You can do what I do in Colorado and block the front end with cardboard or foam so you get close to zero forced air in front. I'm sure you see diesels in your area do this all the time.
With a blocked radiator, down to 20'F I saw very little reduction in MPG.
Below 20'F down to about 5'F, I got very little EV mode driving, and about 15% lower MPG. * radiator still blocked.
At plus / minus 5 from zero, expect the gas engine to run full time.
At -15'F below zero, my FEH started easily, but performed very poorly, and even acted very strangely at times, like reving the engine to 4,000 RPM while stopped at lights, in parking lots, and at McDonald's drive-thrus. I called on Ford engineering, and they said this fast reving in cold was NOT part of the design intent, and wished to have a look, but of course, could not replicate -15'F indoors in the lab ( service bay ).
You may be okay... and I think you will have the nicest, neatest, coolest car in town... but overall, may not save much gas... but on the other hand, it is also the world's cleanest gas engine even when it is burning gas, so you won't make much pollution.
-John
#13
06-06-2008, 01:34 PM
Re: FEH and cold weather question
It's been a while since I checked back with this forum. We took delivery of our Ford Escape Hybrid here in Anchorage. We have gone through 2 winters. The car stays parked outside and we only occasionally use the plug in block heater. We've never had an error code or a problem with starting. I LOVE how fast the warm air starts coming out of the vents. The gas mileage is moderately reduced in winter driving, but we expected that. I love the Little Green Meanie, the way it handles and drives. I have no complaints and we love having 4-wheel drive, SUV AND hybrid capabilities.
Cheers
Cheers
#14
06-08-2008, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Re: FEH and cold weather question
If I still lived in an ICE BOX, Cut Bank(??) MT, or Anchorage AK, I wouldn't even CONSIDER purchasing a hybrid vehicle unless I had an alternative vehicle, preferably RWD or R/AWD, for use during the winter.
There are only three advantages to a hybrid vehicle like the FEH/MMH.
BOOST for the smallish ICE provided by the electrics, somewhat equivalent to SuperCharging. Not of much use on a snow or ice covered roadbed, where "easy" start-offs are the norm.
Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AWD), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).
Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX on must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
*** I have seriously considered disabling regenerative braking during non-braking "coastdowns" on our 2003 Prius for just this reason.
There are only three advantages to a hybrid vehicle like the FEH/MMH.
BOOST for the smallish ICE provided by the electrics, somewhat equivalent to SuperCharging. Not of much use on a snow or ice covered roadbed, where "easy" start-offs are the norm.
Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AWD), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).
Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX on must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
*** I have seriously considered disabling regenerative braking during non-braking "coastdowns" on our 2003 Prius for just this reason.
Last edited by wwest; 06-08-2008 at 05:23 PM.
#15
06-08-2008, 06:15 PM
Re: FEH and cold weather question
>>>BOOST for the smallish ICE provided by the electrics, somewhat equivalent to SuperCharging. Not of much use on a snow or ice covered roadbed, where "easy" start-offs are the norm.>>>
You seem to really know what you are talking about, so I won't argue the mechanics or physics of the whole thing with you, but I can speak from personal experience. In Alaska, we don't drive on glaring sheets of ice...in fact, plain old snow covered roads have excellent traction and actually smooth out the potholes. With the exception of freezing rain storms or other obvious water/snow combinations, the road surfaces are just fine, hybrid vehicles for otherwise.
<<Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AWD), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).>>
Again, no idea what your engineering explanation here is......yes, the time the ICE kicks on and engine shuts down are greatly reduced in cold weather and so is gas mileage...but still above what other 4 wheel SUV's get---never had any highly dangerous incidents in two years...maybe we are just a time bomb ticking though....
<<Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX on must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.>>
The passenger compartment is exceptionally warm and if I am not mistaken, the heater works from the electrical motor/battery and we actually have warm air in the passenger area much more quickly than any conventional vehicle we have ever owned. Why would the gas engine work "extraordinarily hard"? Any more so than a gas engine works in a normal vehicle? Again, from our experience, we LIVE in Alaska, we DRIVE a Hybrid in Alaska and we have no problem and we love it. I'm sure, though, on paper, we are completely wrong and that could not possibly be true. Us little bumble bees will just keep flying and you engineer types can just keep calculating!!
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
You seem to really know what you are talking about, so I won't argue the mechanics or physics of the whole thing with you, but I can speak from personal experience. In Alaska, we don't drive on glaring sheets of ice...in fact, plain old snow covered roads have excellent traction and actually smooth out the potholes. With the exception of freezing rain storms or other obvious water/snow combinations, the road surfaces are just fine, hybrid vehicles for otherwise.
<<Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AWD), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).>>
Again, no idea what your engineering explanation here is......yes, the time the ICE kicks on and engine shuts down are greatly reduced in cold weather and so is gas mileage...but still above what other 4 wheel SUV's get---never had any highly dangerous incidents in two years...maybe we are just a time bomb ticking though....
<<Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX on must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.>>
The passenger compartment is exceptionally warm and if I am not mistaken, the heater works from the electrical motor/battery and we actually have warm air in the passenger area much more quickly than any conventional vehicle we have ever owned. Why would the gas engine work "extraordinarily hard"? Any more so than a gas engine works in a normal vehicle? Again, from our experience, we LIVE in Alaska, we DRIVE a Hybrid in Alaska and we have no problem and we love it. I'm sure, though, on paper, we are completely wrong and that could not possibly be true. Us little bumble bees will just keep flying and you engineer types can just keep calculating!!
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
#16
06-08-2008, 06:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: FEH and cold weather question
There are only three advantages to a hybrid vehicle like the FEH/MMH.
Funny, I count 15 or 16 Advantages. I guess you are just not looking very hard Willard.
BOOST for the smallish ICE provided by the electrics, somewhat equivalent to SuperCharging. Not of much use on a snow or ice covered roadbed, where "easy" start-offs are the norm.
Weird... I thought you understood hybrids more than that.
Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AW), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).
That above statement is plain old FALSE! The Ford Escape Hybrid gives me 100% regen brakes even at 0'F if I plug-in my engine and battery warmer at night. I have proven that reduction in regen braking is directly proportional to BATTERY TEMPERATURE and has no relationship to outside air temperature.
Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX one must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.
In the FEH, catalyst temperature is not an issue, even in Minnesota winter. It stays above the minimum for 5 minute stops at 0'F with no problem. Losing engine water temperature is an issue, somewhat resloved with insulation on the front end.
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
This is FASLE. You will still get better FE, but not as much better, of course. It will always be better, but may not be worth the extra purchase price to some people who spend many months in sub-freezing weather. I live in Colorado and Minnesota. My year-round average in my 2005 FEH is 37 MPG. I get over 40 MPG in the spring and fall, and low 30's for MPG in winter.
John
#17
06-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Re: FEH and cold weather question
Willard has debated his point of view with GPS1man in the past. It has been pointed out to Willard in the past that the hybrid battery temperature also plays a role in what he mentioning. When the hybrid battery temperature is in the normal operating range, things are pretty much normal with the FEH. It is true the colder temperatures do create more "resistance" for battery energy flow but not to the extent that Willard is referring to--hybrid vehicles do not belong in cold environments.
-Regenerative braking in cold weather: I have it and had in in below zero weather.
-Catalyst up to operational temperature: my scanguage reveals above 1000 degrees occurs within seconds-maybe 15 seconds top in frigid weather
-Non-hybrids providing better fuel economy than hybrid vehicles in frigid weather: sorry this is not my experience. It is true the hybrids are more sensitive to colder weather but still deliever better FE than any of my previous non-hybrid vehicles.
-warm air for the cabin area comes on quickly with my FEH
It should be noted the FEH's engine block heater does have a connection for the hybrid battery's heater. Something the Prius lacks.
-Regenerative braking in cold weather: I have it and had in in below zero weather.
-Catalyst up to operational temperature: my scanguage reveals above 1000 degrees occurs within seconds-maybe 15 seconds top in frigid weather
-Non-hybrids providing better fuel economy than hybrid vehicles in frigid weather: sorry this is not my experience. It is true the hybrids are more sensitive to colder weather but still deliever better FE than any of my previous non-hybrid vehicles.
-warm air for the cabin area comes on quickly with my FEH
It should be noted the FEH's engine block heater does have a connection for the hybrid battery's heater. Something the Prius lacks.
Last edited by Billyk; 06-08-2008 at 07:01 PM. Reason: spelling
#18
06-08-2008, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1,678
Re: FEH and cold weather question
>>>BOOST for the smallish ICE provided by the electrics, somewhat equivalent to SuperCharging. Not of much use on a snow or ice covered roadbed, where "easy" start-offs are the norm.>>>
You seem to really know what you are talking about, so I won't argue the mechanics or physics of the whole thing with you, but I can speak from personal experience. In Alaska, we don't drive on glaring sheets of ice...in fact, plain old snow covered roads have excellent traction and actually smooth out the potholes. With the exception of freezing rain storms or other obvious water/snow combinations, the road surfaces are just fine, hybrid vehicles for otherwise.
<<Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AWD), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).>>
Again, no idea what your engineering explanation here is......yes, the time the ICE kicks on and engine shuts down are greatly reduced in cold weather and so is gas mileage...but still above what other 4 wheel SUV's get---never had any highly dangerous incidents in two years...maybe we are just a time bomb ticking though....
<<Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX on must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.>>
The passenger compartment is exceptionally warm and if I am not mistaken, the heater works from the electrical motor/battery and we actually have warm air in the passenger area much more quickly than any conventional vehicle we have ever owned. Why would the gas engine work "extraordinarily hard"? Any more so than a gas engine works in a normal vehicle? Again, from our experience, we LIVE in Alaska, we DRIVE a Hybrid in Alaska and we have no problem and we love it. I'm sure, though, on paper, we are completely wrong and that could not possibly be true. Us little bumble bees will just keep flying and you engineer types can just keep calculating!!
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
You seem to really know what you are talking about, so I won't argue the mechanics or physics of the whole thing with you, but I can speak from personal experience. In Alaska, we don't drive on glaring sheets of ice...in fact, plain old snow covered roads have excellent traction and actually smooth out the potholes. With the exception of freezing rain storms or other obvious water/snow combinations, the road surfaces are just fine, hybrid vehicles for otherwise.
<<Regenerative braking (think FREE gas), recharging of the hybrid battery.... Dangerous, highly dangerous (FEH/MMH = FWD or F/AWD), so much so that it is mostly disabled as the OAT approaches, declines toward and below, freezing(***).>>
Again, no idea what your engineering explanation here is......yes, the time the ICE kicks on and engine shuts down are greatly reduced in cold weather and so is gas mileage...but still above what other 4 wheel SUV's get---never had any highly dangerous incidents in two years...maybe we are just a time bomb ticking though....
<<Being able to shut the ICE down at certain times/conditions and rely only on the hybrid Battery. But in an ICE BOX on must work extraodinarily hard in order keep the engine coolant HOT (and thereby passenger compartment at least a tad warm) and the catalyst up to operational temperature.>>
The passenger compartment is exceptionally warm and if I am not mistaken, the heater works from the electrical motor/battery and we actually have warm air in the passenger area much more quickly than any conventional vehicle we have ever owned. Why would the gas engine work "extraordinarily hard"? Any more so than a gas engine works in a normal vehicle? Again, from our experience, we LIVE in Alaska, we DRIVE a Hybrid in Alaska and we have no problem and we love it. I'm sure, though, on paper, we are completely wrong and that could not possibly be true. Us little bumble bees will just keep flying and you engineer types can just keep calculating!!
My guess is that in those wintertime climates one would fare better FE wise with a standard F/AWD Escape.
Willard has debated his point of view with GPS1man in the past. It has been pointed out to Willard in the past that the hybrid battery temperature also plays a role in what he mentioning. When the hybrid battery temperature is in the normal operating range, things are pretty much normal with the FEH. It is true the colder temperatures do create more "resistance" for battery energy flow but not to the extent that Willard is referring to--hybrid vehicles do not belong in cold environments.
-Regenerative braking in cold weather: I have it and had in in below zero weather.
No one disputes that regenerative braking is available at lower outside temperatures, but ONLY to provide braking or braking assist if the brake pedal is actually being depressed/used and provided ABS isn't "triggered". Regenerative braking during simple coastdown periods is substantially reduced if the OAT is at a level condusive to icy, slippery, road surfaces.
-Catalyst up to operational temperature: my scanguage reveals above 1000 degrees occurs within seconds-maybe 15 seconds top in frigid weather
Granted, no question. But the more/MOST important issue is how soon, after ICE shutoff (in an "ICE BOX") does it need to restart due to catalyst temperature, and/or engine coolant, quickly declining.
-Non-hybrids providing better fuel economy than hybrid vehicles in frigid weather: sorry this is not my experience. It is true the hybrids are more sensitive to colder weather but still deliever better FE than any of my previous non-hybrid vehicles.
Can we trust that your previous non-hybrids were weight and "functionally" equivalent to your FEH...?
-warm air for the cabin area comes on quickly with my FEH
Sure, and hell frooze over just last week.
It should be noted the FEH's engine block heater does have a connection for the hybrid battery's heater. Something the Prius lacks.
-Regenerative braking in cold weather: I have it and had in in below zero weather.
No one disputes that regenerative braking is available at lower outside temperatures, but ONLY to provide braking or braking assist if the brake pedal is actually being depressed/used and provided ABS isn't "triggered". Regenerative braking during simple coastdown periods is substantially reduced if the OAT is at a level condusive to icy, slippery, road surfaces.
-Catalyst up to operational temperature: my scanguage reveals above 1000 degrees occurs within seconds-maybe 15 seconds top in frigid weather
Granted, no question. But the more/MOST important issue is how soon, after ICE shutoff (in an "ICE BOX") does it need to restart due to catalyst temperature, and/or engine coolant, quickly declining.
-Non-hybrids providing better fuel economy than hybrid vehicles in frigid weather: sorry this is not my experience. It is true the hybrids are more sensitive to colder weather but still deliever better FE than any of my previous non-hybrid vehicles.
Can we trust that your previous non-hybrids were weight and "functionally" equivalent to your FEH...?
-warm air for the cabin area comes on quickly with my FEH
Sure, and hell frooze over just last week.
It should be noted the FEH's engine block heater does have a connection for the hybrid battery's heater. Something the Prius lacks.
Last edited by wwest; 06-08-2008 at 09:39 PM.
#19
06-08-2008, 11:03 PM
Re: FEH and cold weather question
Poor Willard, he doesn't have a FEH, doesn't live or drive in frigid conditions and is probably headed for another debate with others.
Regenerative braking during simple coastdown periods is substantially reduced if the OAT is at a level condusive to icy, slippery, road surfaces.
Sorry, my experience is yes and no. When the hybrid battery temperature is warm, there is an increase in regenerative braking feedback via 'feel' and scanguage SOC readings when compared to a colder hybrid battery temperature. I have seen hybrid battery SOC increase via the scanguage with a simple letup on the gas pedal during coast down periods. I do this on my drive home from work even in the middle of winter. Heck, I can coast down a 1/2 mile 8% hill in "L" at 20 mph due to the regenerative braking when the hybrid battery is at normal operating temperature even during winter conditions.
after ICE shutoff (in an "ICE BOX") does it need to restart due to catalyst temperature, and/or engine coolant, quickly declining
I can obtain EV in the middle of winter when my Cylinder head temperature exceeds 185 degrees and my radiator temperature Fwt exceeds 154 degrees via my scangauge. I can continue in EV until my Fwt drops below 124 degrees. This does not occur rapidly especially when one uses the front grille blocks. My experince is the hybrid battery SOC decline or need for greater than 54 AMP is the frequent cause of ICE restart rather than cold radiator temperature or engine temperature.
Can we trust that your previous non-hybrids were weight and "functionally" equivalent to your FEH...?
My last vehicle was a Sable wagon which was about 150lbs lighter than my FEH. Can you produce data the Ford Escape non-hybrid 4 cylinder produces better fuel efficiency than the hybrid in winter conditions? The dealer I know in Northern Wisconsin can not produce this data.
Sure, and hell frooze over just last week.
I normally drive without a jacket (prefer a vest), winter hat or gloves when I am in Northern Wisconsin in the middle of the Winter.
The FEH has an OEM engine block heater...?? I never knew that, I have always thought the "block" provided the heat.
Ford has a better idea, the engine block heater is standard equipment in northern states.
Regenerative braking during simple coastdown periods is substantially reduced if the OAT is at a level condusive to icy, slippery, road surfaces.
Sorry, my experience is yes and no. When the hybrid battery temperature is warm, there is an increase in regenerative braking feedback via 'feel' and scanguage SOC readings when compared to a colder hybrid battery temperature. I have seen hybrid battery SOC increase via the scanguage with a simple letup on the gas pedal during coast down periods. I do this on my drive home from work even in the middle of winter. Heck, I can coast down a 1/2 mile 8% hill in "L" at 20 mph due to the regenerative braking when the hybrid battery is at normal operating temperature even during winter conditions.
after ICE shutoff (in an "ICE BOX") does it need to restart due to catalyst temperature, and/or engine coolant, quickly declining
I can obtain EV in the middle of winter when my Cylinder head temperature exceeds 185 degrees and my radiator temperature Fwt exceeds 154 degrees via my scangauge. I can continue in EV until my Fwt drops below 124 degrees. This does not occur rapidly especially when one uses the front grille blocks. My experince is the hybrid battery SOC decline or need for greater than 54 AMP is the frequent cause of ICE restart rather than cold radiator temperature or engine temperature.
Can we trust that your previous non-hybrids were weight and "functionally" equivalent to your FEH...?
My last vehicle was a Sable wagon which was about 150lbs lighter than my FEH. Can you produce data the Ford Escape non-hybrid 4 cylinder produces better fuel efficiency than the hybrid in winter conditions? The dealer I know in Northern Wisconsin can not produce this data.
Sure, and hell frooze over just last week.
I normally drive without a jacket (prefer a vest), winter hat or gloves when I am in Northern Wisconsin in the middle of the Winter.
The FEH has an OEM engine block heater...?? I never knew that, I have always thought the "block" provided the heat.
Ford has a better idea, the engine block heater is standard equipment in northern states.
#20
06-09-2008, 05:37 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: FEH and cold weather question
Poor Willard, he doesn't have a FEH, doesn't live or drive in frigid conditions and is probably headed for another debate with others.
Regenerative braking during simple coastdown periods is substantially reduced if the OAT is at a level condusive to icy, slippery, road surfaces.
Sorry, my experience is yes and no. When the hybrid battery temperature is warm,
Sorry, OAT = "Outside" Ambient Temperature.
Ford was granted a US patent fairly recently for this aspect of the FEH/MMH design. Inadvertent, unavoidable, braking from the regenerative effects can be more than somewhat hazardous during the winter months if a slippery spot is encountered. Ford is attempting to alleviate this hazard, unique to FWD or F/AWD hybrid vehicles, by removing any substantial level of braking for which the driver might be unaware and therefore unprepared for the resulting potential for loss of directional control should the roadbed happen to be slippery.
If the driver is applying braking then there will be a level prepardness for the result....if not....
there is an increase in regenerative braking feedback via 'feel' and scanguage SOC readings when compared to a colder hybrid battery temperature. I have seen hybrid battery SOC increase via the scanguage with a simple letup on the gas pedal during coast down periods. I do this on my drive home from work even in the middle of winter. Heck, I can coast down a 1/2 mile 8% hill in "L" at 20 miles per hour due to the regenerative braking when the hybrid battery is at normal operating temperature even during winter conditions.
after ICE shutoff (in an "ICE BOX") does it need to restart due to catalyst temperature, and/or engine coolant, quickly declining
I can obtain EV in the middle of winter when my Cylinder head temperature exceeds 185 degrees and my radiator temperature Fwt exceeds 154 degrees via my scangauge. I can continue in EV until my Fwt drops below 124 degrees.
This does not occur rapidly especially when one uses the front grille blocks.
My point is that during the winter, in the ICE BOX, you will likely be making heavy use of cabin heat and therefore the coolant temperature will drop "rapidly". Your use of blockage for airflow through the radiator in the wintertime simply goes toward proving my point.
I can remember having to do that in order to keep the passenger cabin at least a bit warm in my '63 T-bird (390 C.I. V8 ) back when in Minot ND and central MT, but I quickly learned to always be on guard for BOILING coolant as a result.
My experince is the hybrid battery SOC decline or need for greater than 54 AMP is the frequent cause of ICE restart rather than cold radiator temperature or engine temperature.
Why is it that it does not seem to occur to you that the consistently low SOC is due to wintertime temperatures restricting the use of regenerative braking..??
Can we trust that your previous non-hybrids were weight and "functionally" equivalent to your FEH...?
My last vehicle was a Sable wagon which was about 150lbs lighter than my FEH.
And uses a HUGE, by comparison, V6 engine
Can you produce data the Ford Escape non-hybrid 4 cylinder produces better fuel efficiency than the hybrid in winter conditions?
No, but then on the other hand NO ONE can produce date indicating that I'm wrong. The bottom line is that we are both making educated guesses in this respect.
The dealer I know in Northern Wisconsin can not produce this data.
Sure, and hell frooze over just last week.
I normally drive without a jacket (prefer a vest), winter hat or gloves when I am in Northern Wisconsin in the middle of the Winter.
The FEH has an OEM engine block heater...?? I never knew that, I have always thought the "block" provided the heat.
Ford has a better idea, the engine block heater is standard equipment in northern states.
Regenerative braking during simple coastdown periods is substantially reduced if the OAT is at a level condusive to icy, slippery, road surfaces.
Sorry, my experience is yes and no. When the hybrid battery temperature is warm,
Sorry, OAT = "Outside" Ambient Temperature.
Ford was granted a US patent fairly recently for this aspect of the FEH/MMH design. Inadvertent, unavoidable, braking from the regenerative effects can be more than somewhat hazardous during the winter months if a slippery spot is encountered. Ford is attempting to alleviate this hazard, unique to FWD or F/AWD hybrid vehicles, by removing any substantial level of braking for which the driver might be unaware and therefore unprepared for the resulting potential for loss of directional control should the roadbed happen to be slippery.
If the driver is applying braking then there will be a level prepardness for the result....if not....
there is an increase in regenerative braking feedback via 'feel' and scanguage SOC readings when compared to a colder hybrid battery temperature. I have seen hybrid battery SOC increase via the scanguage with a simple letup on the gas pedal during coast down periods. I do this on my drive home from work even in the middle of winter. Heck, I can coast down a 1/2 mile 8% hill in "L" at 20 miles per hour due to the regenerative braking when the hybrid battery is at normal operating temperature even during winter conditions.
after ICE shutoff (in an "ICE BOX") does it need to restart due to catalyst temperature, and/or engine coolant, quickly declining
I can obtain EV in the middle of winter when my Cylinder head temperature exceeds 185 degrees and my radiator temperature Fwt exceeds 154 degrees via my scangauge. I can continue in EV until my Fwt drops below 124 degrees.
This does not occur rapidly especially when one uses the front grille blocks.
My point is that during the winter, in the ICE BOX, you will likely be making heavy use of cabin heat and therefore the coolant temperature will drop "rapidly". Your use of blockage for airflow through the radiator in the wintertime simply goes toward proving my point.
I can remember having to do that in order to keep the passenger cabin at least a bit warm in my '63 T-bird (390 C.I. V8 ) back when in Minot ND and central MT, but I quickly learned to always be on guard for BOILING coolant as a result.
My experince is the hybrid battery SOC decline or need for greater than 54 AMP is the frequent cause of ICE restart rather than cold radiator temperature or engine temperature.
Why is it that it does not seem to occur to you that the consistently low SOC is due to wintertime temperatures restricting the use of regenerative braking..??
Can we trust that your previous non-hybrids were weight and "functionally" equivalent to your FEH...?
My last vehicle was a Sable wagon which was about 150lbs lighter than my FEH.
And uses a HUGE, by comparison, V6 engine
Can you produce data the Ford Escape non-hybrid 4 cylinder produces better fuel efficiency than the hybrid in winter conditions?
No, but then on the other hand NO ONE can produce date indicating that I'm wrong. The bottom line is that we are both making educated guesses in this respect.
The dealer I know in Northern Wisconsin can not produce this data.
Sure, and hell frooze over just last week.
I normally drive without a jacket (prefer a vest), winter hat or gloves when I am in Northern Wisconsin in the middle of the Winter.
The FEH has an OEM engine block heater...?? I never knew that, I have always thought the "block" provided the heat.
Ford has a better idea, the engine block heater is standard equipment in northern states.
