I've noticed on this site and hybridcar.com a number of drivers complaining that their FEHs only get about 22-25mpg. The drivers seem to have driven in diverse conditions and all have attempted to alter driving habits without any success in improving mpgs.

(as a new member to both sites, I am also really discourage at the number of flipant and downright rude responses to these drivers posts. Suggesting these drivers are somehow incompetant and sending them off to some "hypermiling" article doesn't address their conerns. These drivers have paid good money - and hefty premiums - for their vehicles and are right to be discouraged)

I would be interested in hearing about other drivers who are having this problem. I would also be interested in hearing "real" discussions about possible causes for the low mpgs, ie. such things as batteries that may be overheating causing the battery a/c to run too often, etc.

Not all low mpg is caused by poor driving habits...many poor drivers admit to getting very good mileage.

Mark

 

This would be ME Mark

When someone like yourself ask why the electric motor was not working, members here ask if you had the defroster on. You did, and that was your problem. When someone just says they are getting 20-23mpg and doesn't report any problems with the FEH, while other with severe conditions are getting 24-26mpg, it is most likely a lack of knowledge of the FEH.

Maybe, just maybe these people getting 22-25mpg could learn something from someone getting twice what they are reporting in the same conditions. You did not read or understand the manual regarding the defrost setting. Some of us knew this information before we purchased our FEH.

The FEH is not a lemon when someone does not know how to operate it!

GaryG

 

Actually, for the most part, the low mileages reported are a result of NORMAL conditions that exist with these vehicles. The reason that many reponses are short and/or reference other posts and articles, are because the same questions get asked repeatedly just like on every forum on the internet. I would say that the top reasons for low mileage are simply due to drivers not understanding the vehicles. Also, keep in mind that for a typical driver NO vehicles are going to even come close to EPA fuel economy numbers. If I drove my Mariner Hybrid like I drove my old Grand Cherokee I'd probably be getting around 25mpg too....instead I'm closer to 30mpg.

In no particular order (other than the order they popped into my head), here are my top 5 reasons for reduced fuel economy:

1. Cold temps: Cold temperatures will affect battery/vehicle performance. It will take longer to get up to speed and the battery will not perform as efficiently as it does in its optimum range. Also, many states use "winter blends" containing up to 10% ethanol. This reduces fuel economy further as ethanol has less energy than the equivalent amount of gasoline.

2. Hot temps: Again, we are dealing with optimum temperature ranges for the battery. The difference with heat is that high temps will kick in the AC system to cool the battery thus greatly reducing fuel economy. Also, people tend to run the AC (see #3) or drive with open windows in the summer which will reduce MPG as well.

3. "Red modes": MAX AC, and both defrost settings are labelled in RED to indicate that they when used, the ICE will not be shut down allowing EV mode. This is detailed in the manual. Leaving the defroster on in the winter will keep the engine running even at stop lights....without idle shutdown these vehicles lose one of the major factors in their improved economy.

4. Short trips: Numerous short trips will reduce mileage especially when combined with other mileage reducing items as listed here. Every time the key is turned off, the engine must restart and run until the CAT reaches temp. This may only last 30 seconds or as much as 6-7 minutes depending on temps and how long the vehicle sat, but this can easily account for poor fuel economy, especially if someone makes 6-7 rips an hour apart from each other thereby letting the engine/CAT cool down each time.

5. New Vehicle: These vehicle have break-in periods that are clearly detailed in the manual. It even says in print NOT to even look at your fuel economy for the first 1000 miles (maybe more). Anyone who has driven an FEH or MMH for more than 5000 miles will tell you that they experienced greatly improved fuel economy and greater EV mode capability after 1,000....3,000....and 5,000 miles. I know I did.


Obviously, there are other causes for low mileage and many of them are due to driving habits like cruising at 75mph or hard acceleration. However, the vast majority of "Why am I only getting 24mpg" posts can be answered by one of the above posts. There are very few cases I've seen where there was actually something wrong with the vehicle.

 

First,

I realize the frustration at feeling attacked when posting a valid question. However "Lemon"? Thats overstating the case a little isn't it? A lemon is usually used for a vehicle that is undrivable. Even if you get 24mpg you are better off because you have an SULEV-II vehicle getting 7MPG better than the V-6 does (freeway ONLY for the V-6). Thats not a lemon. It isn't getting EPA but many vehicles don't reach their EPA estimates in real world situations. Couldn't we have selected a title for this thread thats a bit more descriptive and not hyperbole? Its just likely to create even more attacks....

That aside. You are looking for a discussion of things that can cause low MPG and not an attack on driving skill. There are plenty of examples that its not always a defect or even driving skill that causes low MPG.

Low MPG can come just from the driving conditions one subjects the FEH to. I (for example) drive a 9mile trip to work and back. These short trips don't allow the engine to heat up much so the EV mode never occurs. In fact under such driving conditions even a conventional engine will fall short of the EPA estimates. If I drive on a longer trip I can get 3-5MPG better mileage than I normally get on these short jaunts to work.

I get much lower gas mileage when it rains (3-4MPG in some cases). High levels of ethanol in the fuel will cause low mileage...

The FEH seems to get better mileage as one drives it... many have reported that around 5000 and 10000 miles the mileage seems to improve. Whether this is due to the engine or battery breaking in, or because the driver might be gaining skill in driving is fairly subjective. I myself saw this occur..... My mileage read approximately 24 when I started driving it in March, after 8,000 miles and mid summer I was regularly getting 29-30MPG (very close to EPA because mines a 4WD). Now that its Winter I'm finding my mileage is tending toward about 26-28 (and its been a very mild winter!!! mostly in the 40's).

Temperature seems to be a VERY strong contributor to the efficiency. From my admittedly very subjective observations it seems that on days where its over 50F I get into EV mode VERY quickly and my mileage tends toward 28-29... If I'm nearer to 40F EV mode is delayed significantly and my mileage tends toward the 26MPG end.

Tire pressure has a strong effect on MPG and when the temperature drops for winter, it has to be adjusted upwards to compensate as well. 35PSI in the summer I found was quite low when 40F comes around.

Its important to note that all cars will see effects like this (to a greater or lesser degree) and their EPA estimates will be incorrect.

I personally DON'T drive all that differently. My tires are at 35PSI, I don't P & G. I take it easy on the acceleration. I do let off the accelerator early and try to let the vehicle coast to the next stop.

These are some of the reasons one might not see EPA estimates... it is an estimate after all. Even the EPA has said that the technique used to create the number can be very inaccurate in real world situations on all vehicles and they are adjusting the technique.

I hope thats helpful and not combative....

 

I was getting 33-34 MPG right out of the box during my first few miles, and before I found sites like this and others that helped me do better. I also constantly think about how the FEH is operating, and what I can do to optimize operating conditions. My father borrowed my FEH for a week when I had a broken arm and couldn't drive, and he "just drove it" and got 36-37 MPG in mild, September weather conditions.

Out of ALL hybrids on the market, the Ford Escape Hybrid is the 2nd best Hybrid on the market as far as delivering what is promised, delivering 95% of EPA results for most drivers. ( but drivers who choose to report, of course )

The Honda Insight is the only hybrid that regularly meets or beats EPA fuel economy... and I think it is only the manual transmission one.

I'm still getting 33 MPG, even during the worst blizzard conditions in the Denver area in 90 years. ( 2nd worst December in history ) Just got 5" more snow at my house today... current outside temp. is +2'F. Takes a bit more gas to "warm up" now, but then still gets 29-30 MPG when warmed up.

-John

 

"A lemon is usually used for a vehicle that is undrivable. Even if you get 24mpg you are better off because you have an SULEV-II vehicle getting 7MPG better than the V-6 does (freeway ONLY for the V-6). "

7 MPG? Doesn't a V-6 4x4 get 23 on the highway?

 

ok sorry for the hyperbole but lets be fair here...the hyperbole is coming at me at least as much as I'm putting it out...and ya GaryG you got me on not knowing about the defrost. Hey I'm not perfect bud.

But I'm still not convinced. Posts such as the last one claiming mid-30mpgs right out of the box compared to low 20s for others? Weather? Driving habits? Short trips? Defrost and A/C? Not being committed enough to move the family to a flat place with dry air and moderate temperatures?

I bought an FEH because I was led to believe by Ford advertising, by the salesman and by many apparently over-enthusiastic hybrid owners that an average driver under average conditions would average mpgs in the low 30s, not low 20s. If I knew I would be feeding oil companies and justifying more foreign bloodshed and spewing emmissions just like any other suv owner I never would have made this purchase.

And some of you seem to miss the point. Big corporations like Ford, Toyota etc. are making huge profits selling the hybrid concept. In Canada we are paying $8000+ for hybrids over their non-hybrid counterparts. Yes, its true, you can get better mileage faithfully following Garys suggestions for hypermiling but you can do that on ANY vehicle, not just a hybrid.

Next time I think I'll save my money and get another 1991 Honda Civic...oh ya, and learn to hypermile...in the meantime does any one have a paperbag I can wear.

 

Is BC British Columbia? While not as cold for as many weeks, Denver and the Colorado Rockies have similar climates to BC part of the year. I think I'm doing pretty well. ( see signature ) Also, this car EXCELS in hills and mountains... like 50-55 MPG round trips, not 30 when I'm in steep enough hills to coast without gas at all. Cold weather is a big disadvantage, and any savy buyer should know all batteries do not perform well in cold. I'll be first to admit this car's niche is for Los Angeles climate and gridlock driving conditions ( less than 40 MPH ).
( Florida is a close second! ) It's pretty much a regular 4cyl car over the highway and above 40 MPH. If I had a Los Angeles commute of over 5 miles every day, I'd be getting 60+ MPG all the time out of this gem!

It's not for every situation, or climate for that matter. And Ford salespersons should explain that, but most are un-educated since they only sell 2 or 3 hybrids per year! But for its design niche... most experts agree, the Ford Escape Hybrid, is one of the best hybrid designs on the market, and delivers what it promises. FYI, Ford's "official" promise is 23 - 25 MPG in below freezing conditions, (expressed in press releases as "25% less") and 31-36 MPG in 65 degree conditions. Sounds like that is what the public is actually getting.

And I'm 100% sure Ford is loosing money on Hybrid sales. This car has many, many unique and expensive parts. The only "profit" is brand image.

-John

P.S. Even with the gas engine running, this car is the cleanest gas automobile ever produced by an American manufacturer. You're spewing (nearly) nothing... but hyperbole. And how new is it? Give it a chance. Canadian winter is no where close to "normal" or "average" driving conditions. The gas-only Escape would be getting teens for MPG in the same situation.

 

Bob, I think the V6's EPA numbers are 19/23 city/hwy. You can't compare real world mpg for the hybrid to EPA #'s for the V6. I figure a 'normal' driver probably gets about 75-80% of EPA numbers which would put the Hybrid in the mid 20's and the V6 in the high teens.


Mark, By law, Ford can only quote EPA numbers in their advertising. And while publications/writers love to point out that Hybrids aren't achieving EPA mileage, they NEVER mention that NO vehicles achieve EPA mileage. EPA's test format is in no way representative of the way typical drivers drive...that is why they are being changed next year. If you bought a V6 you'd probably be seeing 17mpg not the 23 that Ford advertises. Would you be up in arms about that???

As for the "over enthusiastic owners", well keep in mind that people here are SERIOUS Hybrid owners, many of whom strive to exceed EPA numbers...if only to say they did. I don't think that any members here have claimed that you should expect 30+ mpg out of the box....save for a few members who claimed to achieve that themselves. The vast majority of owners will report exactly what I stated above....that you should expect mid to high 20's for the first few thousand miles....followed by gradual improvement. With only a slight change to your habits, you can get pretty close to EPA numbers in "normal" conditions (not 95 or -10 degrees every day).

You claim to be upset about filling the pockets of oil companies and speing pollution into the atmosphere....neither of which is really true. As I mentioned, even though you aren't acheiving the EPA numbers, the numbers you are seeing are a drastic improvement over the real world numbers of the V6 or even the 4 cyl version. You are burning probably 30% less fuel than you would with the "regular" Escape. Furthermore, this vehicle is a PZEV certified vehicle. That means that part of the time, there are ZERO emissions. The rest of the time it is (I believe) an SULEV rated vehicle.

Profits??? Not on Hybrids. Toyota "claims" at this point to profit or break even on the Prius, but that is even in question. Companies are selling these vehicles for two reasons....neither is profit.
1. Public image
2. Government requirements for fleet emissions. By selling a Hybrid, that helps a company like Ford push other vehicles with much lower fuel economy numbers because the "average" is now swayed by the inclusion of a Hybrid.

If what you wanted to great fuel economy and low emissions, yes you could have bought a new Civic and save quite a bit of money. Buying a Hybrid SUV will not get you the fuel economy of a Honda Civic...its simple physics of weight and wind resistance. If you NEEDED to buy an SUV and you wanted to get the BEST fuel economy and the lowest emissions possible for an SUV....then you made the best choice.

 

Factory ordered my '06 in November 2005 at Calgary, AB (during high oil prices/high hybrid demand). Total cap price was approximately $40K Cdn...that's just barely more than what a comparably equipped Limited model, on the lot, was listed for.

I'd love to see some depreciation #'s, but the problem is there are so few used FEHs to compare around here.