Gary- Again, I must ask you to stop putting words in my mouth.

I have been doing pulse & glide with much success before I even knew there was a name for it....

I have been getting over EPA mileage since the day I bought my FEH.
I have ALWAYS been a positive advocate for P&G and have been showing, or explaining this technique to everyone I come accross.

I'll turn my key off if I'm standing still in a traffic jam, or while in line for something, but not while driving... not over 10 MPH. You are foolish if you do.
I sincerely hope you do not have your wife or children in the car while pulling these foolish stunts.

You are being foolish if you turn the key off while driving.
It's not going to help you, and it may just kill you or someone else.

The topic in recent days has been around the key off tests.
Not Pulse & Glide.

 

When your first brought up your concern about driving with the "Key Off", I explained then that I only did it twice for the test. This was on a flat country road with no traffic or other dangers. Again, if you still don't understand what I just said, I do not drive with the "Key OFF".

You also brought up the of damage to the eCVT, not having any benifit while coasting in N because of battery drain and danger driving with the "Key Off" again now. Your assumptions about foolish stunts driving the wife and kids warning is nothing positive, only scare tactics.

The only thing I've heard from you about P&G is placing the FEH at 99% load for the pulse. Xcel came back and said you NEVER use Wide Open Trottle (WOT) in P&G. I'll listen from xcel who is a well known expert on the subject and I hope other do also. The pulse is what were working on now, but I'VE offered other test results for "Key On" driving. If I was dead set on driving with "Key Off" as you imply, why would I offer to do other test at my expense?

As far as you giving advise on P&G, spare me please!

GaryG

 

I've been getting out on the road more now and using the SG more.
I've noticed a couple things...

#1 In EV mode, since Gas consumption rate is out of the equation, it doesn't matter if you glide in N or D. Just as long as you are into some gear ( D or L ) if and when you need to come to a stop, so you can capture a bit of regen. If you can maintain no arrows on the regen screen in D, you can coast exactly the same distance as N. ( keeping the screen blank in D can be a challenge though... in that regard... N can be an advantage...)

#2 If you need to glide with the ICE on... ( because your speed is over 40, or it's too cold for example... ) It looks BETTER to glide in DRIVE. Watching the SG and the NAV display... they BOTH DROP in MPG when coasting in N. This seems backwards, but it was consistant over 15 miles and 45 Minutes of P&G. This is for sure better for the NUMBERS on the screen. Real life... TBD....

"Coasting" in D ( no gas pedal ) from 35MPH to 25MPH with engine on = 95 to 75 MPG.

"Coasting" in N, with engine on from 35MPH to 25MPH = 55 to 35 MPG.

( on my particular road, your results may varry... hopefully, the proportion is the same...)

I'm having a hard time describing why this is... because I know you can coast the same distance no matter if you are in N or D as long as you keep regen or engine braking out of the equation.

I have a theory though... it's probably an instrument problem.
Since the SG is not measureing the actaul amount of liquid fuel going into the engine... it has to INFER what's being used from other conditions.

In N, perhaps the RPM's go up a tad, since there is no load?
In N, perhaps a bit more mass of air flow is detected?
Most likely, something is going on in N that "tricks" some sensors.

Gary, this would help explain why your SG reads lower than actual.
You sound like you spend a lot of time in N. N on mine tricks the SG to read low... and by a significant amount. I'm talking engine on time. There is no such effect in EV.

How many actual gallons and actual miles have you done since having the Scangauge?
I'm still on my first tank... takes a while to empty that sucker when you're getting 40+ MPG! And this is that monster 18 gallon fill up. When I do need to get gas, I'm going to do the usual "3-clicks" at the pump... then I'll add 3 gallons to that number, since I forced nearly 100% of the air out last time.

I think you and I can for sure tell the difference between a 40MPG tank, and a 45MPG tank... but I don't think you can measure the difference ( at the pump ) between 44 and 45MPG. There is AT LEAST 1 MPG of "play" each time you fill up. This time, I may have to put +/- 2 MPG in the notes section of the database... since I'm not going to spend 20 minutes trying to shove 18 gallons in there next time. I was hoping something like the SG would be more reliable than the human pumper... but I think not. I've gone 129 miles this tank, and MTE = 475 now. And this is in below freezing temperatures. This puts me at 35MPG if the car has figured out I added 18 gallons... and at 42 MPG if it still bases it on 15.
The Nav display is at 38.x MPG right now... ironically, right in the middle!

Gary, where's your real mileage database on GH????

P.S. I'm glad you agree driving with the key off is a bad idea, and that was a 1 day event. I'd be more than happy to drop the subject now... so long as you're not promoting this as something people should do.

 

John, thanks for taking a more constructive roll again. There is something going on in "N" with the ICE on or off with regard to readings on both the scangauge and nav. 15 min average in my opinion. As time goes on, I'm sure we'll find the answer. The one thing that does not change is how far you coast to a stop and how much fuel you can put in the tank. Having to choose which one is right, I choose the one that saves me money any day. The higher RPM sometime seen in "N" may be caused by the demand on the generator since there is no regen. I am spending as much time in "N" as I can BTW. My gas gauge seems to be working fine and I'm going to continue driving in "N".

As far as the gas data log, xcel has brought this up to me also. There are many reasons why I don't waste my time with it. The main reason is to save money and disapointment. I'd rather have my wife or kids drive the FEH at times to save gas. Since I can't change their driving habits, they kill my mpg. The disapointment is like the same reason I don't watch sports that much. I know what I can get out of my FEH, and that's what matter to me. During the summer, my wife demands the A/C be on max. I don't need any reminders of this, such as a data log. I'm sure some of you can relate to this.

GaryG

 

--

 

I have just received my Scan Gauge and with the tips you guys have been sharing, I have already seen an improvement in my MPG! Right now I am just shooting for the EPA city of 33MPG, I am up to about 29MPG now thanks to you and ScanGauge. I have not tried N yet, but just getting up to an efficent speed quicker, and then easing up has really helped.

I have written to Ford about the motor starting so soon on take off, I feel that I should be using more of the battery during take off than I ease out of it.
I will let you Guys know what they say.

 

Xcel, as John noted in post 53, there is a problem with instant MPG on the scangauge while in "N". It's as much as a 50% decrease than the "D" readings. As you have seen, the coasting test clearly show "N" a better FE choice. The scangauge should be showing an increase, not a decrease. The same readings are decreasing in both the OEM 60mpg max and the Trip scangauge readings when shifting to "N". For this reason, the 58.2 mpg short trip may be false and lower than true mpg. I did use "N" coasting in the test trip as much as I could. I did not use the 43mph "L" shift and coast in EV at all. The lower 58.2 reading may be low for this reason, not the gas. It may end up with the test close to what I was getting before the "N" coasting was brought to light by you. My feelings are, the test result should have been much better.

If you want an open and closed loop test, you need to explain what you want me to do in more basic terms, so I can understand. I'm no Ford engineer, but I can listen. Also, my trip to West Va. has been changed to the summer so if you need a day for testing my FEH, let me know ASAP before we make other plans. I can drive to Sebring to meet with you.

Hubert, give us feedback on improvements! The scangauge is not perfect but I think you made a good investment. Enjoy!

GaryG

 

Hubert... How many miles do you have on your FEH?
( Oh sorry... just looked at the database and you have over 5,000 miles...
you should be able to go 0-40 MPH in EV by now... but you must be gentle! See below... )

When the car is very new, it is difficult to go past 25MPH in EV no matter what you do. By the 3,000 mile mark, you should be able to go 0-40 MPH off battery only.

Of course you can do what I do...
Whenever possible, I get in a lane behind a Semi or Loaded Cement Truck.
( Buses are pretty good too, if you have the Nat. Gas powered ones... here, the diesels smoke too much! )

The rate of acceleration of a loaded semi or bus, and the FEH EV is a pretty good match. By being behind a truck, people don't get mad at me for going too slow!
After all, there's a truck ahead of me!

People think I get great FE because I drive slow.
Not true.
I always go the speed limit...(eventually). I just accelerate slowly, and coast as much as possible.

I think Xcel would be shocked at how fast I go half the time.

-John

 

One ScanGauge problem solved???

The SG display has 4 brightness settings:
OFF
LOW
NORMAL
HIGH

When I had mine set to "high" the light would never go off... even with the car parked and the key out.

Now I have mine set to "Normal" and it goes off in the usual 10 seconds after the key is shut off or removed.

This may explain why some saw this behavior, and some didn't.
Maybe try it Gary, and see if yours does the same thing.

-John