That's what I kept thinking with my mileage problem - maybe if the thermostat isn't working properly, the engine always gets the signal to stay on.

Does anyone know if this is possible?

 

I've found several things that may help those who are having problems understanding the operation of their hybrid drives. I'm no expert, but these are my observations. And I have to apologize for this being so long, I've been saving up for a while:

At slow speed:

1. With current temps in the 40s to 50s, I find that it takes almost 2 miles and 5 minutes for the engine to warm up enough for it to shut down while coming to stops. Up to that point, my display shows really low mpg, 10-20 or so. Once it's warm, even after parking it for a while (up to 2 hours or more?) it will shut down after a short warmup (less than 1 minute). And then city mpg goes up quite a bit, into the 30s. But that initial cold run always keeps the average city mpg down, which the EPA tests don't reflect. I always see my mpg go down, way down, at the beginning of the drive, and go up at the end (hopefully more than it went down!).

2. When the engine is warm, and it goes into EV mode, I have to go really light on the accelerator pedal to keep it in EV. It's definitely not up to "normal" acceleration rates of traffic. I find that when pressing on the pedal, it's not like pressing on a conventional ICE car with an automatic transmission, where you press on the accelerator and continue pushing it down further and further to continue accelerating. In EV mode, and even in ICE mode, the FEH accelerator functions differently and the sounds and techniques for driving a uncomfortably different, at first, but you can learn to drive it right and get used to it after a while. The continuously variable transmission (CVT) when powered by the ICE shows this difference quite well. Try this experiment, which really intrigued me when I first got my FEH: when you are accelerating, hold the pedal constant, and watch the speed of the vehicle increase, while the rpm on the tachometer and sound of the ICE remain constant! This is not possible in a car that does not have a CVT. I believe that this same effect takes place in electric mode, even though I can't confirm this because there's no tachometer for the electric motor. So I push the accelerator pedal down to a certain point, and then hold it there, and the FEH will continue to accelerate. If I'm really careful, I can get the EV speed up to 35 on the flats, 40 on a slight downhill. If I continue to press the pedal down further, the vehicle thinks that I want to accelerate at a faster rate, which exceeds the capability of the EV mode, and so it kicks on the ICE. I hope this makes sense to anyone who reads it and helps them learn how to drive the FEH.

3. I've found that the accelerator pedal is fairly sensitive, and when accelerating in EV mode, I will often hit a small bump in the road, which apparently causes my foot to momentarily press on the pedal just enough more to kick in the ICE, at which point I tend to put a curse on the bump in the road. Of course it could be partly my fault because I'm trying to walk that fine line between getting as much acceleration as possible out of a somewhat weak EV mode and not letting the ICE kick on, but here in litigious California we know that it's always the bump's fault!

4. I don't know how Mike gets as far as he does in EV mode, I want your battery pack Mike. I can't get any further than 2 miles, even downhill. But my battery also was not cycling very high or low until my current tank of gas. I don't think I saw the charge level on the nav system display drop below about 40%, or go above 75%. I haven't see the green charge line go above the bottom of the "+" sign, even this weekend on a long, long downhill run out of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. But in the last couple of days, I have been able to run the battery down to the point where it doesn't look like it has any charge left before the ICE kicks in. Maybe this is part of the break in period still. I have about 2600 miles now. Maybe when my battery is fully broken in (hopefully not broken!) I can get farther and be like Mike!?

5. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford de-tuned the hybrid system to protect that battery. They apparently had problems with the batteries during testing, which is supposedly why they installed that funky battery venting system that screws up you FEH rear side window. Battery life has been a common concern of most consumers, who have repeatedly said in the media that I have seen that they won't buy a hybrid because they don't want to have to buy new battery packs for untold thousands of dollars every year or two. So I think Ford has decided to err on the extreme side of caution. I, like Mike, can't wait until Ford decides to make the firmware that lets the EV perform at a higher level available to us, or some hacker writes a patch that we can all download to our FEH's! Those rice rocket racers are known for increasing the performance of their little gerbil wheels by hacking the computer control. Of course they push the limits to beat the other racers, but we're not asking for that. Let's all encourage Ford to step up to the plate again. They've done pretty good job by making the FEH in the first place. Does anyone have a contact e-mail for the Ford Hybrid people? They don't have any way for me to contact them on their web-site that I've found. I wish that Ford would be more communicative with us, don't you?

6. Why does the ICE have to come on when you turn the key on? Does the Prius engine always come on? I've heard that it doesn't. I've heard the FEH does because it has to warm up the catalytic converter so that emissions are reduced. But it's creating pollution while sitting still, with no power required. And when you first start driving at low speeds, it's only using the electric motor unless you step on it pretty good. Why not wait until the extra power is required to turn on the ICE and kill 2 birds with 1 stone? Generate acceleration and warm up the CC at the same time. After all, I bought this vehicle for efficiencies sake! Another firmware upgrade?

At high speed:

1. When I first get on the freeway, my mpg on the display is usually far less than 30. It takes 10 minutes or more before it will climb to over 30. I wonder if it is the transmission, or the tires, or the engine that needs to warm up for this to happen? Maybe all 3.

2. When it's raining and in the 40's, my engine doesn't shut down as much, and I think that's due to the cold rainwater getting on the radiator and keeping the engine cooler.

3. When I drive 65-70 on the freeway, with temps in the 40s and 50s, and I get off the freeway, the engine won't shut down at the first stop, but usually does by the second stop. When I drive 60 or lower, and then get off the freeway, the engine has always shut down at the first stop. This leads me to believe that the higher speed also cools the radiator too much which cools the engine below that magic temperature above which it gets to shut down.

I hope that all of this helps. I know I've been learning bit by bit while reading everyone else's input, Thanks!

Tom

 

I wonder what makes you think that your ICE shuts down at 70 mph. Is it while you're looking at the nav system display, and the instant mpg goes to 60? That happens in mine when I let off the accelerator or while going downhill, and just means that mileage has gone way up , but the ICE is still on, it's just idling and not using much gas. Are you also checking the round tachometer on the left side of your drivers dash that shows the ICE rpm. It shows if the ICE has actually shut off, when it drops down to the EV section. I'd really be surprised if the ICE shut down at freeway speeds and I think Ford would too!

Tom

 

I loved Tom's wonderful observations. He looked for patterns much as I do everytime I drive and he tried to respond to them as in an science experiment.

I do not think the engine's temperature is as important to the EV mode as one or two other inputs. I do not think the thermostat is of any value as a culprit.

I will have to check my shop manual but from what I know the two most important limitations to allowing the battery pack to take over exclusively are the Catalytic Convertor temperature (to limit emissions) and the interior temperature of the batteries (to extend battery life). I do not know for sure but I believe there are sensor inputs to the onboard computer from these two sources that limit the ICE from turning off under certain temperatures.

These temperature ranges are set up in the firmware, and I agree they are based on narrow ranges in the initial firmware version basically because Ford is using us all as test dummies. And I know for a fact that Ford Marketing does monitor some forums. I have asked them to speed up new, looser firmware.

I cannot say for sure that the firmware is intuitive, but since I now have passed 3,000 miles and have taken pains to recycle my batteries as much as possible to new lows and new highs I can stay in EV for up to 15 minutes under certain conditions and understand when it will go in and when it will not.

Please understand that EV is not the best MPG mode. Dual Hybrid Mode is best. In EV the MPG is great but when it comes out it has to recharge and that really sucks.

I drive to work about 40 miles each way from 4,000 feet elevation to 2,000 feet and then back. Today I was able to go there and back starting at 27 MPG and 33 when I got there and overall 31 when I got home. This means to me that I am getting about 30 MPG overall when I drive carefully. I have chosen a new route home coming up less steep hills gradually and it increased my MPG even though it extended my total miles driven.

Thanks for your input and I hope Ford does listen to us real owners and become less conservative.

Mike

 

I called the closest hitch shop to my house, and found out they had already done 15 Hybrids. They take the 2005 Escape Hidden Hitch hitch and cut a chunk out of the left side where the coolant hoses are, and then weld a plate to what's left of the side plate.

It looks like a pretty simple change, and there is more volume of metal there when they finish. They charge an additional $35 for the modification.

I've towed a horse trailer with it. Although I wouldn't do a long trip, it seems fine around town.

 

Hitches for the FEH have been available since May of '05 (back when the post was first written (Dec '04) they weren't). AND no modification need to be made to the frame. See other thread topics to read more about those of us who've installed them ourselves and also see some of the pics showing FEH with their hitches...

 

I read with much interest the thread about the Ford Escape brake control system, since I just had a complete brake failure (luckily NOT at high speed) that was due to failure of the hydraulic control unit. I have also learned that this part is currently on nation-wide backorder (?). I wonder if anyone else out there has experienced this failure.

I have had my Ford Escape Hybrid since October (already over 30,000 miles) and have been completely delighted. Having owned only Toyotas for the last 18 years, I took the chance on a US product only because I really wanted a hybrid and thought Ford deserved credit for getting there first with a hybrid SUV. Up to this point, I have found no reason to regret that decision, but now I wonder. I am also rather upset that the dealer refuses to give me a loaner/rental while we wait for this part.

Comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Ed
California

 

I only heard about 1 other brake failure and that was second hand. The backorder does not suprise me, since it is a low production vehicle. I would demand the loaner though. Call ford customer service at the 800# and tell them your story. When I had my failure (rare cooling pump failure, only 1 other I have heard of, again) the Dealer put me right into a loaner no questions asked. That took about a week to resolve and it was 100% free of charge. They should treat you the same.

FYI before you get too down on Ford our Prius was just recalled and today the steering went out on it. Toyota has thier bugs too.

Chris

 

Actually, I believe I got the first shop modified hitch (Hitch-Web.Com) installed and documented December '04.

 

Ed-
I checked at Ford Fleet and found the following TSB that seems to fit your problem:

There is no similar TSB on the regular Escape.

On the issue of rental coverage I looked up my own coverage. It seems to say we have extended ESP up to 36K which includes rental coverage with no deductible for warranty repairs. I would have your dealer contact ESP or you could call Customer Service Direct.