I own a 2005 FEH and I am finding it not to be green at all. It has 107,000 miles and the HVTB cooling fans just went out. It was purchased in CA which is a CARB state so I figured I would have a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty according to my warranty manual. I took it to ford and found out that they say it's not covered and charged me half the repair after I complained to the people in MI. ($350). When I got the car back the blend door was not working so the car still never went into EV mode. They must have broken it because it was working when I took it in the first time. Go Galpin Ford!! I drove it around and brought it back and waited with the flu in there lounge for 4 1/2 hours only for them to tell me it was all working okay. So I took the can for a 20 minute ride then back to the dealer I went to give the tech a lesson on the operation of a hybrid. I showed him that my AC was off but the ICE was still running. You can hear the AC compressor clicking on and off. I made him stick his head to the rear air filter so he could hear the fans inside the battery were running. Then I put a plastic shopping bag to the vent on the driver side rear window and showed him that there was no airflow. He said the computer was not giving him any codes. I said my shopping bag was obviously more accurate then his computer. I can't believe that we are in 2012 and these guys still can't figure this out. I was the one who diagnosed the fan problem in the first place. I could have bought the parts myself for $220 and repaired it. But since I thought it was under warrenty I figured I would save some money. Big mistake. So I find out that the average life span for the 2005 FEH is 7 to 10 years This is based on the temp of the battery. The battery's don't fail completely but they no longer have the same capacity that they originally did.

NiMH batteries do not fail in the same way as NiCd or lead-acid batteries. NiMH batteries fail in two predominant modes that are somewhat interrelated. The metal hydride material used for the negative electrode undergoes gradual corrosion in a strong alkaline environment. This corrosion results in less negative active material for hydrogen storage and also consumes water from the electrolyte.
This results in a gradual loss of power as water is consumed, increasing the cell resistance and a gradual loss in capacity as active material is converted to corrosion products. By optimization of the alloy composition, this corrosion process can be controlled at very low rates. The rate of corrosion will be impacted by various factors including temperature, State of Charge (SoC), and control of overcharge and oxygen recombination. Studies under controlled overcharge conditions predict that the rate of battery degradation will double for approximately each 36-degree Fahrenheit rise in temperature. Thus, a battery designed to operate for 20 years at 25 °C (77°F) would last 10 years at 45 °C (113°F). Extrapolation beyond 45 °C is not linear since other failure modes, caused by decreasing charge acceptance resulting in positive electrode swelling and thermal instability, could control the battery life.

Then finding out a replacement battery costs $10,400 for my 2005 FEH which isn't even worth that much if I were to sell it. So it's a no brainer. Throw away the car and put the $10,400 down on a new one.

My conclusion is that there is nothing green about a hybrid!! If you want to save money on gas then sure you will get slightly better gas mileage then a non hybrid escape. But are all the problems really worth it? I say no. But that's just my opinion.

I will be sueing Ford in Small Claims court like I did to AT&T. You can google that case by searching for my name "Matt Spaccarelli" I even called Fords legal department to see if they were interested in covering the repair under warrenty. But they were not. They offered me a half price repair on something that should be covered under warranty.

I guess I'll just see them in court.
If anyone has any ideas call me at 912-313-1234 or email me at matthewspacc@yahoo.com

 

My sympathies. I think you are on to something.

 

Today the dealer asked if I could come by and road test my car and show the tech what is wrong. So I did and when I got back the tech was out to lunch for another hour. I told the service adviser I would drive it awhile longer and come back. So I decided to change the blend door actuator myself. I drove away and never went back. The part cost me $23.00 and about 30 minutes to change. They had my car for 7 days and they know I am trying to leave town. I should have just fixed it myself a week ago. I'm headed to GA from CA.

 

Good call. There is more cumulative knowledge here on this forum than the dealer techs can ever hope to have.

 

So, you say your car is a 100,000 mile "throw-away" car, yet New York taxi cab fleets have been successfully using Escape hybrids, with them coming out of taxi fleets with 300,000+ miles on them and they are still running fine.

Next you say you are going to sue Ford "like you did AT&T." Hmmm....I think we are seeing the pattern here....

 

1. How long does it take a New York city taxi cab to put 300,000 miles on a vehicle? I'm betting just a few years
2. Time is the cause of battery failure with NiMh. If it takes 4 or 5 years for a cab to reach 300,000 miles that's a lot of years for a battery

I'm going on 7 or 8 years and 110,000 miles. Which one do you think might be more likely to fail Joe.

As for your comment about AT&T if my warranty book says 10 years or 150,000 mile and I have a problem with something the book says is covered but some lady at Ford says is not should I just roll over and take it? If that's the case you need to pay for my repair. Why? Just because I said so. When I sued AT&T I won. You can read all about it. That means a judge agreed with me. I made a good point AT&T tried but failed. That will be the same thing with Ford. I am not hateful towards them. We just disagree so I will go to small claims and accept the opinion of the judge. it's the system we have to settle disputes. don't knock me for standing up for myself and getting what was promised when I bought the car. More people should follow me and get what they deserve. And not a penny more.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewspacc

1.

Can you provide the details on what was promised and who exactly stated this?

 

I'm wondering if the moderators can shut this thread down? This clearly did not start as a productive and constructive thread and is turning into even less. "My conclusion is that there is nothing green about a hybrid" posted on a greenhybrid.com forum is clearly the work of a troll looking to stir the pot. I won't comment on the lawsuit threats for fear of getting handed one myself...

 

Here is what I was promised by Ford. It comes directly from my warranty book
The picture in the middle did not copy and paste so here is a link to the PDF on Fords web site. Please see page 16. http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pub.../05hevwa1e.pdf

As for the person above. Go pound sand. Just because my opinion differs from yours. You call for a moderator to shut this discussion down. I own a hybrid and I have an opinion. Just because I am not as happy as you doesn't mean I shouldn't be heard. If you planning on owning a hybrid for more then 7 years I would be very careful. I don't think it would be economical. But that's just my opinion. If you want to talk more about my experiences feel free to give me a call 912-313-1234. Anyone can call. Im traveling across the country in my hybrid stopping every 100 miles for gas (I'm pulling a trailer) so I don't run out. My average MPG is 12. So I have plenty of time to talk. But I'm sure you don't.

Matt
6. California requirements for emissions warranties
QUICK REFERENCE: EMISSIONS WARRANTY COVERAGE
This chart shows the coverage Ford Motor Company provides under the emissions control warranty to owners of vehicles certified for sale in Cali- fornia, (your Vehicle Emissions Control Information label will indicate certified for sale in California or conforms to California regulations) and registered in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, or Vermont. This coverage is in addition to Fed- eral Emissions warranties (Page 12).
There are two warranties: • Defects Warranty
• Performance Warranty
For full details about coverage under California requirements for emis- sions control, see:
➡ Defects Warranties (pages 17-20)
➡ Performance Warranty (pages 17-18) ➡ What Is Covered? (pages 19-20)
➡ What Is Not Covered? (page 20)
16

 

Not only does the car have to be built and first sold in a CARB state, it must also be registered in an original CARB state to get the 10yr, 150k warranty. If you pass 100k and are not registered in a CARB state, your warranty is over and going back and registering it in a CARB state won't get you the longer warranty back.

As far as longevity of the NiMH battery, there have been almost no failures of the cells themselves in either the Prius or FEH and the first gen Prii have been around for more than 12 years.