First off, hi everyone! I've just spent the last hour looking through all the great info available on this forum from other FEH owners, and can tell this is a great resource.

I currently have a Toyota Sequoia. I've loved its 4WD go anywhere and haul anything ability, but I hate it's thirsty engine. I'm ready to sell it and grab something with much better mileage but similar capabilities.

I've decided the stuff that is important to me includes the ability to have 4 wheel drive for inclement weather, some mountain driving / light offroad for remote camping, etc, good ground clearance, lots of cargo space, but still get 30+ mpg. It looks like the FEH is just about the only thing out there that ticks all these boxes and is still in my price range. I've budgeted $11,500, and have decided based on my research of what is out there on these things that I really want the Nav/Audio package, Sunroof, and Leather.

I've been looking on Craigslist, Cars.com, autobytel, etc and have not found many of these things around. I live in the Boise, ID area, and found 1 FEH locally, but it has cloth seats, no nav or sunroof, and is front wheel drive. I took it for a spin this morning anyway, just to see how it felt. My overall impression was not good - but that could have been mostly due to the disgusting crud caked all over the seats and the stench inside the vehicle. Not sure what the previous owners did to it, but that interior was just destroyed.

This evening I found a Mercury Mariner fully loaded with everything I'm after and more at a different local dealer... so off I trudged for a test drive and a push sales experience. My impression of this drive was quite a bit better, but it was obvious the salesperson knew absolutely nothing about hybrids in general and fords in particular (this was not a ford dealer).

So, here's my first question: What are the real differences between the FEH and a Mariner? Is it really just paint/interior fit/finish?

Next question: I'd like to be able to tow small stuff behind this thing. I have 2 snowmobiles on an aluminum trailer. Combined weight is around 2500 lbs or so. I note that the FEH is rated to tow 1000lbs, but I've read that this is because in reverse it only uses the electric drive, which should not be stressed with heavier loads. If I only ever pull forward, am I safe to pull something a little heavier?

In my price range, it looks like for the options I want I'll be looking at vehicles with more than 100k miles on them. This magic number seems to be when wheels start falling off used cars, so what should I look for as far as alarming stuff when shopping? Is there a way to ask the onboard electronics for some diagnostic information? Will the battery pack really last well past 100k miles?

And, final question for this post: Where can I find one of these? Is there some super-secret lair where all the cool kids go to swap their FEH's?

Thanks all - sorry for the long-winded post, but that's how I roll...

 

The difference from the Escape to the Mariner are mostly cosmetic. The Mariner is a bit more upscale but nothing major. Its more what your personal taste is.
I would caution you about the Escape/Mariner. We've got an '08 Escape XLT non-hybrid and I dont think much of it. Its already got the bottom of the doors starting to rust, the rear window has leaked almost since it was a year old, its got lots of electrical gremlins (recently had to replace one of the wheel speed sensors, had to replace the blower voltage regulator and its got this weird tendency where when you turn the key to start it, all the lights come on but the engine doesnt crank but if you turn the key again, it starts up just fine) and just the overall level of quality isnt very good, IMO.
My bet is youd be fine towing with it. IMO, thats just Ford playing it safe and trying to protect themselves from warranty claims.
If you like your Highlander but want something less thirsty, Id personally recommend a Honda CR-V or a RAV4. Id pass on any Escape/Mariner.

 

^^^^Not a typical owner experience.^^^^

 

Considering the recalls and all the complaints you hear from Escape owners on other forums, Id say it is not...
I mean, it uses a Taurus motor, for crying out loud. A Taurus motor! LOL (talking about our's, which is the non-hybrid here)
All jokes aside, to each their own. I know cars and sometimes I just look at our Escape and am just like, "wow, they let that get out of the factory???"
If you or anyone else reading this owns an Escape and loves it, cool, Im happy for you. I personally hate our Escape and cant wait until something major goes wrong with it and we can buy a CR-V. Its my fiance's car, so I rarely drive it or ride in it and she likes it, so no sense spending the money to get rid of it until something major and expensive breaks on it.

 

To address something Shogun said, the op said he has a Sequoia, not a Highlander.

@quangdog:
In my opinion, I wouldn't buy an FEH or Mariner Hybrid older than 2010. That's because the electric power steering problem seemed to be largely resolved after 2009. BUT, an MMH 2010 or newer for sale is going to be extremely hard to find. You might consider the FEH Limited instead, which has a lot of the MMH's features including the sunroof and heated leather seats. Lots more goodies also.

Few FEH's have the navigation unit, like 1 in 20. You'll wait a long time if you want that. An alternative is that the stock nav units are available on eBay for under $1000, and a good car audio shop could install and get it working. You'd want the factory unit because it ties in with the hybrid system.

As of the 2009 model, the Escape/Mariner Hybrids had a very much improved engine/hybrid setup, and got stability control as a standard feature. It was not available on the Escape/Mariner hybrids prior to 2009.

As for the towing rating, you'd have to be aware that you'd be violating the manufacturer's parameters and handle the matter appropriately. In other words, be very cautious when towing 2500lb and don't expect any support if you have a problem. At the same time, I've never seen a report of anyone having problems using an FEH for towing.

Personally, I agree with Shogun's evaluation of the quality. I'd equate it to the build quality of Chrysler vehicles. There's simply no excuse for the multiple ways the tailgate can leak other than incompetence or disdain for the customers. (In a month or so I'll be posting a complete rundown on all the ways the tailgate can leak and how to fix them.) So if you can get an extended warranty, do so.

There are Escapes being used as taxis that are being retired with 300,000 miles on them. Not because they're worn out, but because of rules. There is a 2008 FEH in the US with over 500,000 miles on it. If an FEH is properly maintained, 100,000 miles should not be a problem.

Querying the OBDII system is no different than any other car, with the exception that there are additional codes related to the hybrid system. I'd say the hybrid system is the most reliable aspect of the FEH.

Battery pack replacement rates, even on the oldest FEH's and Prius' are close to zero. Little or no performance or mileage degradation due to battery capacity loss is being seen. Even if you should have battery problems, individual cells can be replaced, or used battery packs from wrecks are going on eBay for about $800.

As for finding one... There were over 120,000 FEH, MMH and even Mazda Tributes built. Sales fell off considerably after the 2009, so a '10-'12 would be rare. There seem to be lots of '08's for sale. Finding one will be a matter of intensifying your search, widening your search area, or taking more time. One strategy would be to contact all the Ford dealers in your area and asking them to contact you if they have one or when they get one.

My search was limited to a 2009 or 2010 FEH with awd. Despite living in a large city it took a month and I had to go out of town to get it. About half of FEH's are Limited models, and about half are awd's. Since Limiteds were more likely to have awd, you'd be looking at about 30% FEH's being Limited AND awd. So an available 2010 or newer will take some time or searching. If you wait for a newer MMH, or FEH Limited with nav and awd, you'll die of old age first.

Enjoy the hunt!

 

Do I understand correctly that you don't own a Hybrid Escape, and yet are issuing recommendations? I don't think that is much better than those folks who insist on posting Prius details in the discussions here - the FEH is a different animal from the ICE Escape (and the Prius is a different electrical system than the FEH).

I would not have bought an ICE escape either, but the FEH is pretty unique in it's capabilities - even my 2008, with the first generation propulsion system.

 

Good point. I too would not have imagined ever buying an Escape, if it were not for the FEH being the only smallish hybrid suv with an awd system. I have to say the hybrid system, driving dynamics and versatility have pleased me,while the reliability has not. A friend has a '10 FEH, with half the mileage of mine, and it has been reliable.

The non-hybrid aspects of the FEH are the same as the non-Hybrid Escape, which is most of the vehicle. And the Prius' hybrid system is sufficiently similar to the FEH that Ford had to make arrangements with Toyota to avoid patent infringement problems. Maybe there aren't any shared parts, but the basic systems are quite similar. "Quite" being relative, of course.

 

Actually, a mutual exchange of patents between the two companies on the hybrid technology.

I've been pleased with mine, although I have the extended warranty till 100K and will probably extend it again - just to be sure. There are a couple of things that can go wrong on the hybrid - like the braking system - that can be expensive to fix, and don't exist on the ICE version. Although most FEH users don't seem to have problems with them.

 

If the towing ability is important, I'd skip the FEH totally. It's rated at 1000 pounds towing capacity because a 4WD FEH loaded up with a full tank of gas, a passenger and some gear is really close to 5000 pounds. Do you really want to try to pull almost 7000+ pounds (vehicle+tow rig) with a ~150hp 4 cylinder engine? It may technically be possible but it won't be the towing experience you're used to. 20hp in reverse is probably not very safe anyways.

For towing power and a hybrid SUV, the best choices are the Highlander Hybrid or the Chevy Tahoe hybrid. The Highlander/Lexus RX isn't really set up for off road although they do come in AWD. Neither of these hybrids get 30mpg easily with their 270+hp. But these will have the towing performance and space you're used to.

Diesel SUVs like the Mercedes GLK, ML and Volkswagen Touareg also get high MPGs and can tow and do some off road, but of course their prices are way over what you want to spend even on the used market.
A Subaru Forester could also meet your reqs (off-road clearance, AWD, power, etc.) but only the later models have decent MPG.
If you still want to check out a lot of FEHs, you'll have to look in populated areas of the left or right coast. Consider in the future if there are none where you live, you might be on your own trying to figure out how to fix it.

 

Don't forget that the 4 cylinder engine is supplemented by the electric motor. It is more powerful than a normal 4 banger. I think the 1000 lbs limit has a lot to do with the brakes not being able to handle the load, although I've not been able to confirm this.

The Toyota products don't have mechanical AWD; it is electric and can stop functioning if it over heats. So I wouldn't suggest them for any kind of off-road use. Limited urban/highway use only.

I think the Tahoe would be OK, and any diesel option would be good as well, but pricy.