MECS Pump Replacement
#81
09-03-2013, 08:15 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
I dont have it in front of me now but... going from memory...
In the 2005 FEH technical service manual, under specifications, it lists operating range for the ELECTRIC MOTORS as -40°C to 200°C.
These are INDUSTRIAL Electric Motors. They can take it.
I'm not talking about fluid temperature, which would as you state, would pressurize / vaporize. (probably does to some degree, hence a degas bottle)
I work in large factories with electric motors from 2 HP to 500 HP.
The factories have high ambient air temperatures, 100-120°F (38-49°C).
Only air cooled, no liquid cooled motors.
IR measurements of motor surface temperatures are often 300°F (149°C) during periods of continuous use. This is not unusual for industrial grade, and I believe Ford motors are.
Also, I'm not sure where the FEH inverter is physically located, it is the inverter temperature I've seen peak as high as 280°F, with just a stage one warning, no shutdown, no stop message, no reduction in performance. Since the motors are "able" to tolerate 400°F (200°C) if anyone gets a stage two overheat, with associated system shutdown, the temperature must be close to, or exceeding this.
This is a thermocouple measurement of some (metal?) part, not a liquid temperature.
My liquid temperature is always in the lower 100°F range.
In the 2005 FEH technical service manual, under specifications, it lists operating range for the ELECTRIC MOTORS as -40°C to 200°C.
These are INDUSTRIAL Electric Motors. They can take it.
I'm not talking about fluid temperature, which would as you state, would pressurize / vaporize. (probably does to some degree, hence a degas bottle)
I work in large factories with electric motors from 2 HP to 500 HP.
The factories have high ambient air temperatures, 100-120°F (38-49°C).
Only air cooled, no liquid cooled motors.
IR measurements of motor surface temperatures are often 300°F (149°C) during periods of continuous use. This is not unusual for industrial grade, and I believe Ford motors are.
Also, I'm not sure where the FEH inverter is physically located, it is the inverter temperature I've seen peak as high as 280°F, with just a stage one warning, no shutdown, no stop message, no reduction in performance. Since the motors are "able" to tolerate 400°F (200°C) if anyone gets a stage two overheat, with associated system shutdown, the temperature must be close to, or exceeding this.
This is a thermocouple measurement of some (metal?) part, not a liquid temperature.
My liquid temperature is always in the lower 100°F range.
Last edited by gpsman1; 09-03-2013 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Ok, I should say industrial motors I see are sometimes 300 degrees, not "often" 300 degrees.
#82
09-03-2013, 01:07 PM
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
I stopped by a friends shop and one of his mechanics had a high end scanner - it retrieved 2 codes:
P1A0D Hybrid Powertrain Control Module Generator disabled
P0A3E Generator / Inverter Over Temperature
I'm guessing that the reservoir is the smaller one in the back - mine has two coolant reservoirs. The PDF Service manual I have is sometimes hard to follow as it is in sections. With the engine off and the MECS pump running there is no visible circulation. Makes me wonder if the impellar sheared off or if something is blocking the circulation. Either way I'm ordering a new MECS pump today, when I remove it I'll try to flush the system - I don't think there is a thermostat in there.
I appreciate the feedback...
Update: Did a I-Net search and found the pump on Amazon for $142 with free shipping
P1A0D Hybrid Powertrain Control Module Generator disabled
P0A3E Generator / Inverter Over Temperature
I'm guessing that the reservoir is the smaller one in the back - mine has two coolant reservoirs. The PDF Service manual I have is sometimes hard to follow as it is in sections. With the engine off and the MECS pump running there is no visible circulation. Makes me wonder if the impellar sheared off or if something is blocking the circulation. Either way I'm ordering a new MECS pump today, when I remove it I'll try to flush the system - I don't think there is a thermostat in there.
I appreciate the feedback...
Update: Did a I-Net search and found the pump on Amazon for $142 with free shipping
Last edited by tothemax; 09-03-2013 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Added info
#85
09-03-2013, 11:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: MECS Pump Replacement
I changed mine out today.
Got a local dealer to meet me half way between MSRP and online price.
Good enough for me since I had time to do it TODAY. ($225)
30 minutes from start to finish for an amateur.
Can't believe Ford is instructed to bill for 1.3 hours.
Also, by accident, I saw dealer's cost for the kit after I agreed to pay $225.
Dealer cost: $157
MSRP: $253.78
Online: $179 + S&H (about $20)
So now you know the room to negotiate.
This is for a genuine Ford part, and comes with a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty. I've heard you can get equivalent pumps elsewhere for a little less, but I assume you'd get no warranty.
Got a local dealer to meet me half way between MSRP and online price.
Good enough for me since I had time to do it TODAY. ($225)
30 minutes from start to finish for an amateur.
Can't believe Ford is instructed to bill for 1.3 hours.
Also, by accident, I saw dealer's cost for the kit after I agreed to pay $225.
Dealer cost: $157
MSRP: $253.78
Online: $179 + S&H (about $20)
So now you know the room to negotiate.
This is for a genuine Ford part, and comes with a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty. I've heard you can get equivalent pumps elsewhere for a little less, but I assume you'd get no warranty.
#86
09-04-2013, 12:52 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
PART NUMBER TO ORDER KIT (9-4-2013)
KIT CONTENTS
PART NUMBER FOR JUST THE NEW STYLE PUMP (made in Mexico)
OLD STYLE BOSCH PUMP (made in Germany)
OLD STYLE BOSCH PART NUMBER
#87
09-04-2013, 04:33 AM
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
My SECOND mecs pump has failed.
First one at about 50,000 miles (I forget exactly, was a long time ago, 2007 or 2008).
Second one just now at 158,000 miles, so it lasted twice as long.
Funny, I never got a stop safely now.
I got "High Motor Temperature".
With a scan gauge attached I could see Motor Inverter 250 degrees, while motor coolent was 111 degrees.... and unchanging.
Also generator inverter was hot but only 212. Normally both stay 180 or less I believe.
What is amazing to me is the inverter can raise 50 degrees in 5 seconds when you brake hard, and cool almost as quickly by air cooling if you coast in Neutral so there is no amperage going through the motor. I never knew how important liquid cooling was for those inverters.
For those of you who get "Stop Safely Now" that means yours exceeded 400 degrees. (F)
First one at about 50,000 miles (I forget exactly, was a long time ago, 2007 or 2008).
Second one just now at 158,000 miles, so it lasted twice as long.
Funny, I never got a stop safely now.
I got "High Motor Temperature".
With a scan gauge attached I could see Motor Inverter 250 degrees, while motor coolent was 111 degrees.... and unchanging.
Also generator inverter was hot but only 212. Normally both stay 180 or less I believe.
What is amazing to me is the inverter can raise 50 degrees in 5 seconds when you brake hard, and cool almost as quickly by air cooling if you coast in Neutral so there is no amperage going through the motor. I never knew how important liquid cooling was for those inverters.
For those of you who get "Stop Safely Now" that means yours exceeded 400 degrees. (F)
Was the replacement pump that just failed the new or old style part?
#88
09-04-2013, 09:50 AM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
From the photos you can see the one I took off was older style Bosch.
First Bosch pump lasted lasted ~50,000 miles from 2005 to 2007.
Second Bosch pump installed under ESP (extended service plan) 6/60k warranty lasted ~108,000 miles from 2007 to 2013.
I guess the newer version wasn't out on the streets yet the first time in 2007.
Funny, the older style looks and feels much more substantial and rugged.
First Bosch pump lasted lasted ~50,000 miles from 2005 to 2007.
Second Bosch pump installed under ESP (extended service plan) 6/60k warranty lasted ~108,000 miles from 2007 to 2013.
I guess the newer version wasn't out on the streets yet the first time in 2007.
Funny, the older style looks and feels much more substantial and rugged.
#89
09-15-2013, 06:33 PM
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
Best guess (I have not taken the old motor apart) the old motor was brushes and the new one is brushless? Motor brushes to wear out and if there's no provision to replace them it's game over...
#90
09-17-2013, 02:16 PM
Re: MECS Pump Replacement
Did the repair today and I understand how the dealers are getting a bad wrap on this. Took me 45 minutes end to end crawling on the ground. Still need to test the vehicle on the road, but there was an obvious movement of fluid with the new pump, where there was nothing with the old one. I'll take a look when I get some time, I get the feeling that the impellar shaft had sheared allowing the motor to run without moving any coolant.
I have previous experience as a dealership mechanic in the 70's, which adds to my dismay if the dealer is charging in the $700 range for this job. I was lucky enough to have a friend to verify the proprietary code for me, but running the codes should be included in any service visit for a nominal fee (troubleshooting would be extra). My observations:
1) This is a known issue with these vehicles, and can be verified with a visual check of the coolant reservoir.
2) As mentioned it took me 45 minutes crawling on a gravel driveway, in a shop with a 1/4" air rachet and a lift it would be a 15 minute job.
3) I found the Dorman part on Amazon for $142.00, my Ford dealer sells the part for $277 + tax
I'm hoping that the issue is resolved, but fully understand the many complaints on this site. This is the first non-warranty or basic service related repair for me (knock on wood...)
I really appreciate all of the assistance from members... Dr. Google is a gift.
I have previous experience as a dealership mechanic in the 70's, which adds to my dismay if the dealer is charging in the $700 range for this job. I was lucky enough to have a friend to verify the proprietary code for me, but running the codes should be included in any service visit for a nominal fee (troubleshooting would be extra). My observations:
1) This is a known issue with these vehicles, and can be verified with a visual check of the coolant reservoir.
2) As mentioned it took me 45 minutes crawling on a gravel driveway, in a shop with a 1/4" air rachet and a lift it would be a 15 minute job.
3) I found the Dorman part on Amazon for $142.00, my Ford dealer sells the part for $277 + tax
I'm hoping that the issue is resolved, but fully understand the many complaints on this site. This is the first non-warranty or basic service related repair for me (knock on wood...)
I really appreciate all of the assistance from members... Dr. Google is a gift.
