Doesn't the CVT have planetary gears?

A rear differential as a planetary gear too, and one could have one wheel spinning while the other stands stationary, without the use of any clutches (though with limited slip, I think there is a clutch involved).

 

A one-way clutch is mentioned in the service manual and the other technical documentation provided by Ford. The big question is, what is it being used for?

 

Hi steve

The One Way Clutch is designed to keep to the engine from rotating in the opposite direction. It provides a slip briefly for a smooth vehicle operation (pg 307-1B24).

If there is a failure of the OWC, the eCVT must be replaced. The small motor/generator can contribribute to the necessary output shaft only if there is a OWC.

The OWC is not a means for a disconnect. The disconnect works by utilizing a slide collar to bridge a gap between two splined shafts which is by electrical means.

GaryG

 

OK that makes sense. So the next question is what if any wear and tear is being incurred on the slide collar by shifting in and out of neutral on the fly?

 

To my knowledge, there are no warnings in the workshop or PCM/ED manuals regarding the use of neutral. There is a trouble shooting test for noise and vibration in the drivetrain that involves the tech accelerating and shifting to neutral. My understanding of the test is to eliminate the transmission and engine from being a suspect as the cause of any vibration or noise. There is no exclusion for the eCVT or standard automatic.

To date, I go in and out of neutral on the fly every day at least 50 times since last December. The shifter or performance of the eCVT has not changed. The coasting effect seems to be the same from 1-75mph in neutral. It is very possible that wear and tear is reduced on the electric motors, the gear set and the OWC by disengaging the drive axles and wheels. It most likely reduces the wear and tear on the axles and the drive wheels also.

The only thing that I would recommend is not having the brake or accelerator pedal depressed when shifting in and out of neutral.

GaryG

 

Okay, hopefully this will put things to rest.

I have 100% proof that both the traction motor and generator motor continue to spin at the same speed as wheel speed when in Neutral.
I now have a CAN Bus scanner that will show Motor RPM.

Traction Motor Speed = 128 RPM per MPH
Generator Speed = -156 RPM per MPH ( EV mode )

Gear ratio between the two: 1:1.218750

Measurements done in EV mode, so there is no ICE speed.
Done when coasting in Neutral, down a 1%-2% slope.

1 MPH TM 128 RPM GM 156 RPM ( reverse direction )
5 MPH TM 640 RPM GM 780 RPM
10 MPH TM 1280 RPM GM 1560 RPM
15 MPH TM 1920 RPM GM 2340 RPM
30 MPH TM 3840 RPM GM 4680 RPM
39 MPH TM 4992 RPM GM 6084 RPM

45 MPH TM 5750 RPM GM ~2400 RPM ICE ON
43 MPH TM 5504 RPM GM 6708 RPM measured during a FAS in Neutral

Yes folks, it is true what I have been saying for 2 years now.
There is not a physical disconnect when you shift to neutral.
In Drive and in Neutral, my RPM numbers are always the same.
Both motors always have a RPM relative to wheel speed.
Coasting in Neutral, both motors always rotate based on wheel speed.
Even after a FAS, both motors rotate based on wheel speed!

Anytime the CAN bus is on, the electronics have the wheels attached to the eCVT. When the key is totally off, the CAN bus is off, and I cannot measure RPM's.
But I am 100% positive the motors spin when you are coasting down a hill in Neutral, even if the car is not "started" after a Forced Auto Stop ( no green car icon ).

Before today, any posts about a neutral disconnect were THEORIES.
THIS IS FACT.
Having opposing theories is good.
It caused me to go to great lengths to prove mine was correct.

However, any future claims that neutral disconnects anything other than electrical power will be considered denial to believe the truth!!

If anyone lives in the North Denver area and would like to see this in person, I will be happy to show this to you in either your car or mine.
-John

 

John (gps1man) can you post a photo of your CAN Bus Scanner or provide some detail on this?

I assume you are researching ways to obtain "hybrid" vehicle infomation without purchasing the hybrid/navigational/radio system.

 

Billy, John has the Nav Sys, and has already purchase his '05 FEH before me. I would also like to have more information of these readings and the guage. The last time I remember this kind of detail from John, was the percentage the battery fan was running at different speeds or something, and found out it was according to him hearing the fan from the back seat while someone else was driving. Fact are facts and John needs to give us details to verify and confirm for all to benefit.

At any rate, neutral coasting helped me hit 61.8mpg during the 27 mile documented course at Hybridfest. There will be a documented video of this posted in my article at CleanMPG.com for those who are interested.

Prior art does describe what John is claiming, but neutral tow was not included in those vehicles. Neutral tow is included in the FEH/MMH according to your owner manual.

GaryG

 

If you have a scangauge, traction motor rpm, generator rpm, traction battery voltage and current, and a host of other things are available through the CMNDS feature. If anybody wants detailed info on how to do this, I can post here. Be prepared for some hex math, though.....
Hopefully these all will soon be available in the gauge mode via a software upgrade.

 

Good point DD, but the upgrade has not been completed yet to my knowledge.

GaryG