Neutral Coasting

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  #21  
Old 08-01-2007, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

I was in the process of gathering some raw data... if you choose to sift through it, you can, but it's a bit difficult.

I'm using a standard ScanGauge, which is like using a push behind mower to groom a golf course. Very labor intensive.

With recent "announcements" that the "New ScanGauge" would do this and that, I got curious. Real curious. Desert Dog pointed out ( a few days ago actually ) that you can retrieve these kinds of data with the SG.
It was there all along, and I just didn't know how to do it.
The Workshop Manuals list the types of data possible, but I ( and most others ) figured you would need Ford tools to access it. Turns out, you don't. However, you do need to know how to speak hexidecimal, and you need to know how to convert lots of strange units. Like for example: Ford says engine torque is in Foot Pounds, but motor torque is in newton meters.
But both display on the SG as hexadecimal.

To make a long story short, I use the SG, a Universal datalogger, and an Excel Spreadsheet to post-process field data. In the car, I can't tell
much on the fly, but after I get home, I print charts and tables I can take in the car with me next time.

Can someone tell/show me how to post an Excel Spreadsheet? That would be most helpful. Thanks.
Edit: posted photos in post #25
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 08-01-2007 at 10:32 PM. Reason: removed unformatted text
  #22  
Old 08-01-2007, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

If you wish to try this with a ScanGauge:

under commands enter: 22496A and send for the Traction Motor.

You will get a reply like : 22496A0F21

0F21 ( or just F21 ) = 3873 RPM

The command for the generator is: 224973
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 08-01-2007 at 08:44 PM.
  #23  
Old 08-01-2007, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

Originally Posted by gpsman1
Holy Shi!!!! Look what just happened in Minneapolis!!!
Just what I thought again John.

GaryG
 
  #24  
Old 08-01-2007, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

Originally Posted by DesertDog
If you have a scangauge, traction motor rpm, generator rpm, traction battery voltage and current, and a host of other things are available through the CMNDS feature. If anybody wants detailed info on how to do this, I can post here. Be prepared for some hex math, though.....
Hopefully these all will soon be available in the gauge mode via a software upgrade.
I would rather wait for a software upgrade in the Scangauge II than get a hex math workout.
 
  #25  
Old 08-01-2007, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

That's why I figured I'd just post the short version!
It's kinda fun, but labor intensive, but it does tell you (us) what you want to know.

Here is a screenshot of the RPM data. ( Hope you can zoom enough to read it )
Basically I recorded all actual values from 1 to 15 MPH, then found the increment per MPH.
Then I predicted what it should be at 30, 40, 50 MPH.
Then I went out and measured 30, 40, 50 MPH to see if my increment and gear ratio was right.
It was. The actual RPM of the car was usually 20 RPM's or less from the predicted value.
My scale, increment, and gear ratio is correct.




Here is a screenshot of my Universal Data Logger. The purists in this group will really appreciate this.
I'm sure GaryG will get sore and fling some irrelevant comment that only makes him look childish.
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 08-01-2007 at 10:29 PM. Reason: added photos
  #26  
Old 08-01-2007, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

Hmm. So now in my mind the $64 question is how then is it possible to allow the FEH to be towed behind an RV with all wheels on ground by shifting to neutral if there is no disconnect mechanism to protect the motor generator from overspeeds? There was a service bulletin indicating that this is OK to do.

Perhaps there is a linkage which is maintained whenever the key is on? Might explain the loud grinding noise I've heard on occaision when reconnecting the 12v battery and starting the engine.
 
  #27  
Old 08-01-2007, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

Or with this group, a $64,000 question!


I'm still looking, but I suspect there is an electronic "cluch" that is only active when the 330v HV battery contactors are closed.
But that is still a theory. I've never heard such a noise, nor felt any vibration, which makes this element puzzling indeed.
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 08-01-2007 at 10:38 PM.
  #28  
Old 08-02-2007, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

I strongly suspect the one-way clutch is what makes neutral towing possible
Actually I think it allows reverse, which is why the reverse is all electric.

Every time a normal automatic transmission shifts the gear ratio changes and the RPM in the engine has to change to match the new RPM for the new ratio
The engine is mechanically forced to change rpm, the fact the automatic changed the ratio and the tires are on the ground (greater load) changes the rpm of the engine. BTW most automatic transmissions use planitary gears to accomplish gear ratio changes, though it is not variable.
 
  #29  
Old 08-02-2007, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

I do wonder what the rpm of the generator is at a high speed (70 mph) ICE off neutral coast? I do not see any decoupler in the schematics so with the ICE off the genrator should turn pretty fast at 70 mph.
 
  #30  
Old 08-02-2007, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Neutral Coasting

Originally Posted by Mark E Smith
Actually I think it allows reverse, which is why the reverse is all electric.



The engine is mechanically forced to change rpm, the fact the automatic changed the ratio and the tires are on the ground (greater load) changes the rpm of the engine. BTW most automatic transmissions use planitary gears to accomplish gear ratio changes, though it is not variable.
Anytime you are in EV, forward or reverse, the one-way clutch disengages the ICE.

GaryG
 


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