PHEV information
#1
02-09-2008, 09:38 PM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southwestern Pa
Posts: 1,747
PHEV information
Found fairly basic PHEV information at this site:
http://www.autobeyours.com/PHEV.htm
A talented individual working with Prius vehicles has created an individualized PHEV Prius by using a second stock hybrid battery. There are diagrams and photos http://autobeyours.com/rough%20sketch.htm on how he is going to fit the second battery under the floor. The project is a Prius but after reading it, why not the same for an Escape Hybrid?
http://www.autobeyours.com/PHEV.htm
A talented individual working with Prius vehicles has created an individualized PHEV Prius by using a second stock hybrid battery. There are diagrams and photos http://autobeyours.com/rough%20sketch.htm on how he is going to fit the second battery under the floor. The project is a Prius but after reading it, why not the same for an Escape Hybrid?
#2
02-10-2008, 04:52 AM
Re: PHEV information
Funny you should ask this....
About 4 months ago there was an Escape Hybrid battery for sale on Ebay. It had been accidently drilled into by a radio installer. I often wondered if it could have been wired in Parallel for the same voltage, twice the A/H.
Interesting info, thanks for sharing!
08feh
About 4 months ago there was an Escape Hybrid battery for sale on Ebay. It had been accidently drilled into by a radio installer. I often wondered if it could have been wired in Parallel for the same voltage, twice the A/H.
Interesting info, thanks for sharing!
08feh
#3
02-10-2008, 07:09 AM
Re: PHEV information
An interesting PHEV video clip from Jay Leno's Garage.
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/...tml?vid=191255
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/...tml?vid=191255
#5
02-10-2008, 09:21 AM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southwestern Pa
Posts: 1,747
Re: PHEV information
I'm waiting for the long time posters 
on this site to chip in on what this guy from Indiana is doing. If you have the necessary background, it appears doable.
From this site one realizes the Prius hybrid battery State of Charge runs from 40 to 80% while the Escape is 40-60%. The Escape's hybrid battery pack has heating and cooling devices while it appears the Prius does not. The hybrid battery control module (BCM) is the key component in allowing hybrid battery assist at almost all speeds.
on this site to chip in on what this guy from Indiana is doing. If you have the necessary background, it appears doable. From this site one realizes the Prius hybrid battery State of Charge runs from 40 to 80% while the Escape is 40-60%. The Escape's hybrid battery pack has heating and cooling devices while it appears the Prius does not. The hybrid battery control module (BCM) is the key component in allowing hybrid battery assist at almost all speeds.
#6
02-10-2008, 11:00 AM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: PHEV information
To use two stock hybrid batteries you would need an A/B switch... basically use one at a time. I don't think it has been tried in a Ford. There are so many communication wires/monitors involved, that I don't think it is feasible to just connect the high power lines in parallel. Plus you will have all that extra weight, and not much more EV time.
Did anyone else catch on from Jay Leno's Test Drive that Ford's PHEV has THREE separate liquid cooling systems? Catch the thrid green fluid container on the firewall that sounds like it is dedicated to the transmission. So Ford's PHEV has:
1) Liquid cooled ( via radiator ) engine loop ( yellow )
2) Liquid cooled ( via radiator ) DC / DC converter loop ( yellow )
3) Liquid cooled ( radiator ? ) Transmission loop ( green )
4) Don't know if there is still an A/C freon loop to the HV battery ( likely )
They say the LiIon battery is "280 volts".
They say the 10kW battery recharges in "6 hours" with a 1500w plug-in.
That is only possible if they use less than 80% or less than 8kW of the battery.
They say they take the battery to "the top" or 100%. So perhaps they never take it below 20% SOC.
Also... the hybrid display was not working correctly on the test drive!
Did anyone else catch on from Jay Leno's Test Drive that Ford's PHEV has THREE separate liquid cooling systems? Catch the thrid green fluid container on the firewall that sounds like it is dedicated to the transmission. So Ford's PHEV has:
1) Liquid cooled ( via radiator ) engine loop ( yellow )
2) Liquid cooled ( via radiator ) DC / DC converter loop ( yellow )
3) Liquid cooled ( radiator ? ) Transmission loop ( green )
4) Don't know if there is still an A/C freon loop to the HV battery ( likely )
They say the LiIon battery is "280 volts".
They say the 10kW battery recharges in "6 hours" with a 1500w plug-in.
That is only possible if they use less than 80% or less than 8kW of the battery.
They say they take the battery to "the top" or 100%. So perhaps they never take it below 20% SOC.
Also... the hybrid display was not working correctly on the test drive!
#7
02-11-2008, 06:26 AM
Re: PHEV information
[quote=gpsman1;161260]To use two stock hybrid batteries you would need an A/B switch... basically use one at a time. I don't think it has been tried in a Ford. There are so many communication wires/monitors involved, that I don't think it is feasible to just connect the high power lines in parallel. Plus you will have all that extra weight, and not much more EV time.
quote]
I know there are alot of communication monitors involved, but with another battery in parallel would the computer really know? What would tell the computer there is more battery capacity on hand? Obviously it would take longer to get SOC up (and longer to run it down which is a good thing) but I know I've seen you guys on here get to the upper end of SOC....more capacity on hand would be a good thing at those times. Also on the EV part...I know everyone like to not use any gas but wouldn't the extra capacity help out more for assist driving and increase mpg other than just straight EV mode? Like in that Leno video....doesn't look like he was in EV much as Jay was beating on it, but was getting almost 50mpg doing it, I assume he was getting some good assist to get that number? I don't mind buying SOME gas, mpg in the 40+ all the time would be great
quote]
I know there are alot of communication monitors involved, but with another battery in parallel would the computer really know? What would tell the computer there is more battery capacity on hand? Obviously it would take longer to get SOC up (and longer to run it down which is a good thing) but I know I've seen you guys on here get to the upper end of SOC....more capacity on hand would be a good thing at those times. Also on the EV part...I know everyone like to not use any gas but wouldn't the extra capacity help out more for assist driving and increase mpg other than just straight EV mode? Like in that Leno video....doesn't look like he was in EV much as Jay was beating on it, but was getting almost 50mpg doing it, I assume he was getting some good assist to get that number? I don't mind buying SOME gas, mpg in the 40+ all the time would be great
#8
02-11-2008, 06:59 AM
Re: PHEV information
If there isn't another way to charge up the battery (batteries), like a plug in, I don't think one can use the extra capacity of just a second battery all that much. Remember, hybrids are energy recycling vehicles, and all the charge that can be normally be obtained, is that from regenerative braking. So, just how long do you "brake" before accelerating/driving again? How long you "brake" is how much capacity you need, and IMHO, Ford did a good job sizing our batteries for most driving conditions.
Last edited by WaltPA; 02-11-2008 at 07:03 AM.
#9
02-11-2008, 03:51 PM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southwestern Pa
Posts: 1,747
Re: PHEV information
[quote=WaltPA;161314]If there isn't another way to charge up the battery (batteries), like a plug in, I don't think one can use the extra capacity of just a second battery all that much. quote]
I am no expert in regards to vehicles. This is how I understand the article: This talented individual is "fooling" the hybrid battery management system into allowing hybrid battery assist at all speeds.
Here is the link:
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/State_O...ontactor_Based
Part of the article:
SOC Spoofing
The Prius' battery management computer (BMS, called the Battery ECU) communicates to the main hybrid computers via the CAN bus. It indicates battery voltage, current, temperature, and its estimates of state-of-charge (SOC), and maximum allowable charge and discharge current.
The BMS' estimate of SOC is critical, as the hybrid controller keeps SOC within 40-80% (the lower and upper limits of the (nonlinear) display graph), and tries to keep it around 60%. When the SOC is above 60%, the hybrid controller works to discharge the battery by using battery power (and less gasoline) even during normal cruise. This increases to around 30A (~6kW) at 70% and above.
When the SOC is below 60%, the hybrid controller works to charge the battery by making the ICE work extra hard even during normal cruise. Below 40% SOC, stranger things happen and it is difficult to get the engine to put out much power at all.
Dan Kroushl did some experiments with higher voltage batteries that proved that the BMS's indicated SOC can be spoofed (Thanks, Dan!). That led Ron to do enough further experimentation to discover that it is definitely possible to do what is indicated in the above paragraph, and generally how to do it. However, the circuitry and programming to do so is still in development. It generally involves, as needed, providing a higher voltage to the BMS than the actual battery voltage.
This information leads me to believe the Escape Hybrid can be hacked to produce greater mpg. Your thoughts?
I am no expert in regards to vehicles. This is how I understand the article: This talented individual is "fooling" the hybrid battery management system into allowing hybrid battery assist at all speeds.
Here is the link:
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/State_O...ontactor_Based
Part of the article:
SOC Spoofing
The Prius' battery management computer (BMS, called the Battery ECU) communicates to the main hybrid computers via the CAN bus. It indicates battery voltage, current, temperature, and its estimates of state-of-charge (SOC), and maximum allowable charge and discharge current.
The BMS' estimate of SOC is critical, as the hybrid controller keeps SOC within 40-80% (the lower and upper limits of the (nonlinear) display graph), and tries to keep it around 60%. When the SOC is above 60%, the hybrid controller works to discharge the battery by using battery power (and less gasoline) even during normal cruise. This increases to around 30A (~6kW) at 70% and above.
When the SOC is below 60%, the hybrid controller works to charge the battery by making the ICE work extra hard even during normal cruise. Below 40% SOC, stranger things happen and it is difficult to get the engine to put out much power at all.
Dan Kroushl did some experiments with higher voltage batteries that proved that the BMS's indicated SOC can be spoofed (Thanks, Dan!). That led Ron to do enough further experimentation to discover that it is definitely possible to do what is indicated in the above paragraph, and generally how to do it. However, the circuitry and programming to do so is still in development. It generally involves, as needed, providing a higher voltage to the BMS than the actual battery voltage.
This information leads me to believe the Escape Hybrid can be hacked to produce greater mpg. Your thoughts?
#10
02-11-2008, 07:37 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: PHEV information
How? The only way you can get higher MPG is if you plug in, and get some of your "fuel" from the wall plug.
