Pulse & Glide
#1
03-13-2010, 11:16 AM
Pulse & Glide
Since a number of you expressed the need to understand P&G better I thought I'd try to explain my understanding.
Pulse is accelerating to a target speed generally with the engine running but it can be in EV also at slower speeds. You can also pulse going down any hill or bridge in EV or with the engine running. All your doing with pulsing is increasing your speed the most efficient way possible. The hard part is using your judgment in applying the pulse and glide in everyday traffic and speed limits. There is a reason why I and others do so good with P&G and it is experimenting till we find what works and what does not work as well. Weather such as temperature, wind and rain hurt both your pulse and glide so I slow down compared to my normal speeds according to conditions.
Someone in another forum stated P&G does not help MPG that much. That told me and others he did not understand or know how to use P&G. Let me make this clear, I just got three straight 57mpg tanks in my '09 FEH and the only reason I could was P&G. So I've proved it works so all you have to do is use your judgment on how and when to use it. First, you need a SGII to monitor Instant MPG, Current Trip MPG and Tank MPG. You've got to know what works and what does not work from the start of your trip to the finish. If your having problems as all of us have had, ask questions here because we might have the solution. Example, I was doing the same slow pulse I had used for years in my '05 FEH and I thought I was doing great in my '09. One day I was in a hurry and started a faster pulse (harder acceleration) when the A/C compressor was running to cool the battery. The fact that the load of the compressor running during a slow pulse was taking more gas than if I reduced the time getting up to my target speed with a little harder acceleration. I seen the results as my tank MPG on both my Nav Sys and SGII were getting better. Also, I could measure just how much more acceleration was needed by the SGII Instant MPG. You must learn how to accelerate, for instance a 13mpg instant reading vs a 20mpg instant reading. Your accelerating faster of course with a 13mpg instant reading than a 20mpg reading. The other gauge you must watch is your Charge/Assist gauge from the factory to make sure during your pulse your still charging your battery with MG1. The SGII has a Engine Load gauge (LOD) that can also help you see at what point the electric motors begin to use the Battery SoC (State of Charge) to Assist torque from the engine. You are no longer charging the battery with MG1 with a 99% or higher LOD reading and this is not good during the pulse for great MPG.
How to pulse and glide depends on how you want to set-up your vehicle. I have two SGII's in my '09 FEH (monitor SoC, Instant MPG, Open/Closed Loop, and Tank MPG all the time), run 50psi in my tires, use 5W/20 Mobil 1, and all stock Motorcraft filters. I use a warm-up P&G by exceeding the speed limit by 5mph and gliding in "D" down to 5mph below the speed limit if traffic permits. As soon as my FEH will go EV, I begin a P&G to the speed limit to 5mph above and a neutral glide in EV down 10mph below or 5mph below the speed limit. This is a general rule when I don't effect traffic and I adjust my P&G so I don't effect traffic the rest of the time. I avoid high speed P&G as much as possible but I adjust my P&G according to traffic. The '05 FEH glides in neutral with the engine running quite well but the '09 FEH will go 100% fuel-cut at any speed above EV speed in "D" or "L". For this reason I choose to glide in "D" with full fuel-cut above 40mph. Rick and I discovered you can get fuel-cut after 3 seconds after you let Off the gas pedal above 40mph and have a SoC of ~46% or more. We found a trick to get full fuel-cut above 40mph instantly with a light brake pedal tap and a SoC above just 41%. This means the '09 and newer models can stop burning any fuel while decelerating any any speed above 40 mph and go EV in neutral below 40mph for a great glide.
Ask your questions or comment here about P&G.
GaryG
Pulse is accelerating to a target speed generally with the engine running but it can be in EV also at slower speeds. You can also pulse going down any hill or bridge in EV or with the engine running. All your doing with pulsing is increasing your speed the most efficient way possible. The hard part is using your judgment in applying the pulse and glide in everyday traffic and speed limits. There is a reason why I and others do so good with P&G and it is experimenting till we find what works and what does not work as well. Weather such as temperature, wind and rain hurt both your pulse and glide so I slow down compared to my normal speeds according to conditions.
Someone in another forum stated P&G does not help MPG that much. That told me and others he did not understand or know how to use P&G. Let me make this clear, I just got three straight 57mpg tanks in my '09 FEH and the only reason I could was P&G. So I've proved it works so all you have to do is use your judgment on how and when to use it. First, you need a SGII to monitor Instant MPG, Current Trip MPG and Tank MPG. You've got to know what works and what does not work from the start of your trip to the finish. If your having problems as all of us have had, ask questions here because we might have the solution. Example, I was doing the same slow pulse I had used for years in my '05 FEH and I thought I was doing great in my '09. One day I was in a hurry and started a faster pulse (harder acceleration) when the A/C compressor was running to cool the battery. The fact that the load of the compressor running during a slow pulse was taking more gas than if I reduced the time getting up to my target speed with a little harder acceleration. I seen the results as my tank MPG on both my Nav Sys and SGII were getting better. Also, I could measure just how much more acceleration was needed by the SGII Instant MPG. You must learn how to accelerate, for instance a 13mpg instant reading vs a 20mpg instant reading. Your accelerating faster of course with a 13mpg instant reading than a 20mpg reading. The other gauge you must watch is your Charge/Assist gauge from the factory to make sure during your pulse your still charging your battery with MG1. The SGII has a Engine Load gauge (LOD) that can also help you see at what point the electric motors begin to use the Battery SoC (State of Charge) to Assist torque from the engine. You are no longer charging the battery with MG1 with a 99% or higher LOD reading and this is not good during the pulse for great MPG.
How to pulse and glide depends on how you want to set-up your vehicle. I have two SGII's in my '09 FEH (monitor SoC, Instant MPG, Open/Closed Loop, and Tank MPG all the time), run 50psi in my tires, use 5W/20 Mobil 1, and all stock Motorcraft filters. I use a warm-up P&G by exceeding the speed limit by 5mph and gliding in "D" down to 5mph below the speed limit if traffic permits. As soon as my FEH will go EV, I begin a P&G to the speed limit to 5mph above and a neutral glide in EV down 10mph below or 5mph below the speed limit. This is a general rule when I don't effect traffic and I adjust my P&G so I don't effect traffic the rest of the time. I avoid high speed P&G as much as possible but I adjust my P&G according to traffic. The '05 FEH glides in neutral with the engine running quite well but the '09 FEH will go 100% fuel-cut at any speed above EV speed in "D" or "L". For this reason I choose to glide in "D" with full fuel-cut above 40mph. Rick and I discovered you can get fuel-cut after 3 seconds after you let Off the gas pedal above 40mph and have a SoC of ~46% or more. We found a trick to get full fuel-cut above 40mph instantly with a light brake pedal tap and a SoC above just 41%. This means the '09 and newer models can stop burning any fuel while decelerating any any speed above 40 mph and go EV in neutral below 40mph for a great glide.
Ask your questions or comment here about P&G.
GaryG
#3
03-13-2010, 07:58 PM
Re: Pulse & Glide
Thanks for the post GaryG. I'll start with the questions. I apologize in advance if they seem simple - I just really want to get a good understanding:
1) Hypothetically if the speed limit is 45mph - is the P&G concept mainly about pulsing (accelerating) to 50mph then gliding (in neutral or drive) to 35mph and constantly repeating? I can see that one of the uses of a Scan Gauge would be to determine the best acceleration rate for optimum MPG.
2) Where does getting the Escape into EV mode come into play? Or is that just a bonus to the P&G concept in question #1?
1) Hypothetically if the speed limit is 45mph - is the P&G concept mainly about pulsing (accelerating) to 50mph then gliding (in neutral or drive) to 35mph and constantly repeating? I can see that one of the uses of a Scan Gauge would be to determine the best acceleration rate for optimum MPG.
2) Where does getting the Escape into EV mode come into play? Or is that just a bonus to the P&G concept in question #1?
Last edited by turbotaguy; 03-13-2010 at 08:07 PM.
#4
03-14-2010, 12:56 PM
Re: Pulse & Glide
Thanks for the post GaryG. I'll start with the questions. I apologize in advance if they seem simple - I just really want to get a good understanding:
1) Hypothetically if the speed limit is 45mph - is the P&G concept mainly about pulsing (accelerating) to 50mph then gliding (in neutral or drive) to 35mph and constantly repeating? I can see that one of the uses of a Scan Gauge would be to determine the best acceleration rate for optimum MPG.
2) Where does getting the Escape into EV mode come into play? Or is that just a bonus to the P&G concept in question #1?
1) Hypothetically if the speed limit is 45mph - is the P&G concept mainly about pulsing (accelerating) to 50mph then gliding (in neutral or drive) to 35mph and constantly repeating? I can see that one of the uses of a Scan Gauge would be to determine the best acceleration rate for optimum MPG.
2) Where does getting the Escape into EV mode come into play? Or is that just a bonus to the P&G concept in question #1?
There is a sweet area of P&G in every vehicle and the FEH is 25 - 35mph. You can still stay in a 23 - 33mph range in a headwind and that's where the sweet spot is for that condition for me. When you leave the sweet spots and go to a higher speed P&G your going to reduce the maximum available MPG. If the speed limit is 45mph and you are causing traffic problems at 45mph, than 50mph may be needed. If 50mph is therefore needed because of traffic, than 35mph is way to slow to glide down to in neutral in most cases unless traffic is coming to a stop or slowing down. When I leave EV range at 40mph, the '09 FEH has fuel-cut in "D" to glide down to 40mph which changes to EV after that. The older FEH must stay in a neutral glide above 40mph with the engine running because fuel-cut is very limited or not available in most conditions. So, if there is no traffic to worry about than 35mph may be okay to pulse to in a 45mph speed limit and 25mph may be okay to glide down too. These are the judgments you have to make I was talking about. Sometimes I'm in a 45mph zone and I can get away with a pulse to 40mph but only get away with a glide down to 35mph. In this range I can still go EV at 40mph and glide down to 35mph in neutral before I repeat my pulse in "D" again. This is not the sweet spot but I'm still getting great mileage and not causing a traffic problem.
Pulse and Glide seems to have been a technique originated for a plain old gas version car or truck with a manual stick shift. You could accelerate to speed with the engine and just turn Off the key and glide in neutral or with the clutch engaged. People lost power steering and brakes but they saved a lot of gas by simply restarting the engine with the clutch when they needed to accelerate again. This technique is still alive and has spread to being used in automatic transmissions that allow neutral coasting with the engine Off and can be restarted with the key in neutral after the glide. If you go over to the mileage logs at Cleanmpg.com and look at the Gas Version section, you will see hundreds of vehicles listed that are doing P&G. So yes, the key to P&G is to drive around with the engine Off as much as possible. Coasting to a stoplight in EV and letting the car next to you trip the light to turn green so you can pulse right on through is the idea. I pass more people this way and I love it.
So yes, it is better to stay in EV range in the FEH and we don't lose power steering or brakes and we can restart by accelerating with our hybrids. I avoid highway driving but I can't cut it out completely or avoid high speeds on roads with traffic. I do have roads along the coast that have speed limits between 30 and 35mph that I can make up some of the damage of high speed driving. Also, I keep my battery between 42.5% and 46% most of the time so when I need to go over EV range my battery can build to a higher SoC for a longer EV segment later. When I hit the highways I find areas in traffic I can do a high speed P&G in both my '05 and '09 FEH with the engine running. I use engine On neutral gliding in my '05 and "D" gliding for fuel-cut in my '09 for high speed P&G. BTW, the SGII will show fuel-cut by indicating Open-Loop and the Instant MPG at 9,999mpg just like EV.
What I have done is map out my area to avoid stop signs and lights as much as possible and roads with heavy traffic and high speeds. This helps to avoid being in an accident and being blocked by someone who has been in a accident. Often I'm making my way to I-95 and hear over the radio that traffic is backed up for miles. I know to avoid most of the roads people use as an alternative and they quickly get to a standstill also. I get to the slower roads people seldom use and get to my destination much faster than most people. I enjoy zipping across the towns and counties using P&G over and over getting as much as 70mpg or better at times and only filling-up after 750 miles has past. Hypermiling is a hobby I enjoy and it has its rewards.
Ask all the questions you want because I want to put a hurting on Big Oil and need your help.
GaryG
#5
03-15-2010, 08:52 AM
Re: Pulse & Glide
I have some "mental" barriers I will have to work through to make P&G a part of my routine. The worst part of driving my FEH is accelerating from a stop to my desired speed (i.e. 0-45mph).
I cringe looking at the instant readout and seeing how LOW it is. I try to get to my desired speed and hold it. I can't bare to think I would purposely drop 10mph and go back up 15mph (5mph over speed limit). I'm sure it is better overall, but it will be a mental barrier.
Once I get a SCAN GAUGE and can better see what's happening I will feel better.
I cringe looking at the instant readout and seeing how LOW it is. I try to get to my desired speed and hold it. I can't bare to think I would purposely drop 10mph and go back up 15mph (5mph over speed limit). I'm sure it is better overall, but it will be a mental barrier.
Once I get a SCAN GAUGE and can better see what's happening I will feel better.
#6
03-15-2010, 04:16 PM
Re: Pulse & Glide
I have some "mental" barriers I will have to work through to make P&G a part of my routine. The worst part of driving my FEH is accelerating from a stop to my desired speed (i.e. 0-45mph).
I cringe looking at the instant readout and seeing how LOW it is. I try to get to my desired speed and hold it. I can't bare to think I would purposely drop 10mph and go back up 15mph (5mph over speed limit). I'm sure it is better overall, but it will be a mental barrier.
Once I get a SCAN GAUGE and can better see what's happening I will feel better.
I cringe looking at the instant readout and seeing how LOW it is. I try to get to my desired speed and hold it. I can't bare to think I would purposely drop 10mph and go back up 15mph (5mph over speed limit). I'm sure it is better overall, but it will be a mental barrier.
Once I get a SCAN GAUGE and can better see what's happening I will feel better.
When CarlD posted about the accelerator blip trick to restart the engine from EV, I could not get it to work for me. This trick fools the computer into starting the engine without the electric motors burning up a lot of SoC during the transition from EV to engine running again. About two weeks later I got it to work some times and now it's a habit that I get to work almost 100% of the time.
Learn how P&G works with a SGII and determine if you want to work on it to become just a habit. BTW, if you want a SGII for $149, join Cleanmpg.com and follow the ad there. It's $169 from Scangauge.com
GaryG
#7
03-18-2010, 08:35 AM
Re: Pulse & Glide
Well, I am trying P&G on a limited basis and it does make my average just a few 1/10's pretty quickly. Right now I'm a P&G "freshman" so I am limiting it to just pulsing to speed limit + 5mph and neutral gliding (ICE on usually) to speed limit -10mph. I am doing this as much as I can and repeating as possible.
I'm coming to realize that most of my routes are 50mph or 55mph roads. They are better than the expressway for MPG, but still not ideal. As Gary said - I think the FEH MPG magic happens at a much slower speed (around 30mph).
I'm coming to realize that most of my routes are 50mph or 55mph roads. They are better than the expressway for MPG, but still not ideal. As Gary said - I think the FEH MPG magic happens at a much slower speed (around 30mph).
#8
03-18-2010, 01:43 PM
Re: Pulse & Glide
Well, I am trying P&G on a limited basis and it does make my average just a few 1/10's pretty quickly. Right now I'm a P&G "freshman" so I am limiting it to just pulsing to speed limit + 5mph and neutral gliding (ICE on usually) to speed limit -10mph. I am doing this as much as I can and repeating as possible.
I'm coming to realize that most of my routes are 50mph or 55mph roads. They are better than the expressway for MPG, but still not ideal. As Gary said - I think the FEH MPG magic happens at a much slower speed (around 30mph).
I'm coming to realize that most of my routes are 50mph or 55mph roads. They are better than the expressway for MPG, but still not ideal. As Gary said - I think the FEH MPG magic happens at a much slower speed (around 30mph).
Next, you need to learn how everything works so you understand your '07 FEH. The eCVT and HV battery are key to understand how there modules work with the PCM (powertrain control module). We've had some heated arguments here on GH trying to explain how we thought things work so it's not all black and white in the FEH manuals. You might want to pick-up a set of '07 FEH workshop manuals on Ebay cheap and I highly recommend the '07 Powertrain Control Module/Emissions Diagnosis service manual. Get the books not the DVD which may be a cheap copy that does not work. I have two full sets for my '05 and '09 FEH which I got off Ebay cheap. I did buy the '09 FEH PCM/ED manual from http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r= directly because I could not wait for it to be for sale on Ebay.
Look at the Mileage Logs on Cleanmpg to see what kind of mileage the '07 AWD FEH is getting for a general rule. You can start your own log there to monitor your progress and compare it to others with your weather conditions. There are some Hybrid Groups and HybridFest where you might get some first hand hypermiling clinics, even with Wayne. He is still doing it for free so I'd get moving. I offer free clinics here in Jupiter if your ever down this way.
GaryG
#9
03-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Re: Pulse & Glide
Thanks for the info GaryG. I looked at the MPG log on cleanmpg.com and I am already doing better than most of the FEH's listed. I'm 1/2 way through my second 37mpg tank.
One question - how do I know if I'm using E10 or straight gas? Do I assume it's E10? Nobody around here lists any info on the pump, and most cashiers at gas stations just don't know.
One question - how do I know if I'm using E10 or straight gas? Do I assume it's E10? Nobody around here lists any info on the pump, and most cashiers at gas stations just don't know.
I seen your post to Wayne purchasing the SGII so your off to a good start. Wayne was responsible for showing me P&G in my FEH back in '06 here in Florida.
Next, you need to learn how everything works so you understand your '07 FEH. The eCVT and HV battery are key to understand how there modules work with the PCM (powertrain control module). We've had some heated arguments here on GH trying to explain how we thought things work so it's not all black and white in the FEH manuals. You might want to pick-up a set of '07 FEH workshop manuals on Ebay cheap and I highly recommend the '07 Powertrain Control Module/Emissions Diagnosis service manual. Get the books not the DVD which may be a cheap copy that does not work. I have two full sets for my '05 and '09 FEH which I got off Ebay cheap. I did buy the '09 FEH PCM/ED manual from http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r= directly because I could not wait for it to be for sale on Ebay.
Look at the Mileage Logs on Cleanmpg to see what kind of mileage the '07 AWD FEH is getting for a general rule. You can start your own log there to monitor your progress and compare it to others with your weather conditions. There are some Hybrid Groups and HybridFest where you might get some first hand hypermiling clinics, even with Wayne. He is still doing it for free so I'd get moving. I offer free clinics here in Jupiter if your ever down this way.
GaryG
Next, you need to learn how everything works so you understand your '07 FEH. The eCVT and HV battery are key to understand how there modules work with the PCM (powertrain control module). We've had some heated arguments here on GH trying to explain how we thought things work so it's not all black and white in the FEH manuals. You might want to pick-up a set of '07 FEH workshop manuals on Ebay cheap and I highly recommend the '07 Powertrain Control Module/Emissions Diagnosis service manual. Get the books not the DVD which may be a cheap copy that does not work. I have two full sets for my '05 and '09 FEH which I got off Ebay cheap. I did buy the '09 FEH PCM/ED manual from http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r= directly because I could not wait for it to be for sale on Ebay.
Look at the Mileage Logs on Cleanmpg to see what kind of mileage the '07 AWD FEH is getting for a general rule. You can start your own log there to monitor your progress and compare it to others with your weather conditions. There are some Hybrid Groups and HybridFest where you might get some first hand hypermiling clinics, even with Wayne. He is still doing it for free so I'd get moving. I offer free clinics here in Jupiter if your ever down this way.
GaryG
#10
03-19-2010, 10:14 AM
Re: Pulse & Glide
Thanks for the info GaryG. I looked at the MPG log on cleanmpg.com and I am already doing better than most of the FEH's listed. I'm 1/2 way through my second 37mpg tank.
One question - how do I know if I'm using E10 or straight gas? Do I assume it's E10? Nobody around here lists any info on the pump, and most cashiers at gas stations just don't know.
One question - how do I know if I'm using E10 or straight gas? Do I assume it's E10? Nobody around here lists any info on the pump, and most cashiers at gas stations just don't know.
GaryG
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