Questions from new owner
#1
01-19-2005, 04:38 PM
Questions from new owner
I've had my escape hybrid 4x4 for about 3 weeks now. I consistently get 28-30 mpg on the freeway but not so hot in the city. I've got several questions:
1. There are comments about mileage getting better as the engine/motor breaks in. Is this specific to the escape or is this true for cars in general?
2. If I go by the miles left on the lcd display, I'm getting lousy gas mileage. I've also noticed the fuel gauge is non-linear. (It drops fast from full to 1/2 then much more slowly.) Do others see this and why can't they calibrate the guage to be linear? The calculated mpg I do myself is much better.
3. There have been comments about cycling batteries. How is this done with a closed system like the escape?
4. In driving around town at speeds from 0-40 mph, the electric motor almost always kicks in at 10-15 mph unless I've been on the freeway for a while. I suppose this could be because the batteries are topped off but this happens even if I drove on the freeway then turned the car off and let it sit for a while. It almost seems like the car's behavior is controlled by algorithm vs. data.
5. anybody else seen a "service emission system" on the lcd when the car is first started? (I'm stopping by the dealer to tomorrow to check on this.)
1. There are comments about mileage getting better as the engine/motor breaks in. Is this specific to the escape or is this true for cars in general?
2. If I go by the miles left on the lcd display, I'm getting lousy gas mileage. I've also noticed the fuel gauge is non-linear. (It drops fast from full to 1/2 then much more slowly.) Do others see this and why can't they calibrate the guage to be linear? The calculated mpg I do myself is much better.
3. There have been comments about cycling batteries. How is this done with a closed system like the escape?
4. In driving around town at speeds from 0-40 mph, the electric motor almost always kicks in at 10-15 mph unless I've been on the freeway for a while. I suppose this could be because the batteries are topped off but this happens even if I drove on the freeway then turned the car off and let it sit for a while. It almost seems like the car's behavior is controlled by algorithm vs. data.
5. anybody else seen a "service emission system" on the lcd when the car is first started? (I'm stopping by the dealer to tomorrow to check on this.)
Last edited by jimbarstow; 01-19-2005 at 04:40 PM.
#2
01-19-2005, 06:54 PM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA (Near Palm Springs)
Posts: 245
I'll do my best to answer your questions but please realize that most of what you hear, here and elsewhere, is all anecdotal, it depends on the feelings and driving conditions of the author and is colored by the biased opinions of the author. I wish that Ford had a Forum for us with an engineer-type moderating who could give us exact answers in real time. I have suggested such a plan to Ford Marketing several times. I envision a Forum along the lines of the Dell Computer Forums, which I still find quite useful.
I have had my H-Escape for about 10 weeks and have almost 3500 miles on it. I have found that the Nav System Fuel Mileage display is at times most inaccurate, based on a comparison of gas-in and gas-out at the pump. I would say it overstates by 10%. It is still a good tool for trying to detemine patterns. I have found that you will not give the car long enough to build battery charge and properly warm up (in my environment of winter 30-50 degrees and hilly at high altitude) unless you drive it for more than a continuous 20 miles plus at a time. The longer I go the better the mileage.
1. Break In - I think the whole break in thing about mileage getting better with age is an old wives tale. I think mileage gets better because we drivers begin to hue to our cars and learn to drive them to the best mileage by watching patterns. That said I am seeing increasing mileage under the same conditions as the car gets older, and the EV time increases. I think this pattern would be the same in any car.
2. As I said, I have the Visteon Nav System so I seldom watch my dash gauge, and if fact, I think whoever thought up having the gauge showing how much electrical push is happening is a moron. Take out that thing and give me a digital percentage indicator of how much charge I have, or even a clock would be better. What I do always is take the number of miles displayed that is left before I run out (normally about 400 after a fill up), add another 60 miles because I think that number does not include the two gallons in the tank that is left when is tells me to fill up, and add both to the trip odometer reading. So if my starting figure is 460, I divide that by the 16 gallon tank and I am getting 28.75 MPG as I drive away from the pump. Most of the time I can maintain the total of 460 and sometimes more. When I quot my mileage to others I usually use my Nav figure instead of the lower figure I have just explained. That is my vanity I guess. I do not really watch the gas gauge dropping. Maybe someday someone will give us a gauge showing exactly how many gallons remain. I know NASA has been able to do this in their rocket tanks since the 1960's.
3. The H-Escape is not really a closed system because the driver has control over inputs. The way I have cycled over time and increased my battery cartoon from the original estimated 40%-75% to what I have now (low of estimated 15% and high of 90%) is as follows. To build the battery as high as possible I coast a lot and overuse my brakes. Not just using brakes, but heavy pedal pressure. To take the battery as low as possible I go on level back roads and parking lots and drive with almost no pedal to try to extend both EV time and distance. And when ICE comes back I try to get back into EV as soon as possible. It is almost like potty-training my car. But I think it has paid off. I am almost imagining that my computer firmware has an interactive side to it and is learning me. I don't know.
4. The EV will kick in sooner without a very very light foot and a low charge. I have also noticed that sometimes I expect something and something else happens. That seems to substantiate your 'algorithum vs. data' statement. I have hopes Ford will soon give us a good, less conservative firmware upgrade. I believe I am almost to the point where I can predict EV and force it on and know when ICE will kick in. At first I was able to stay in EV up to 30 MPH. Now I can stay up to 40 and get into EV at 40. Knowing the battery charge is important and I am glad I paid the extra King's Ransom for the Visteon Nav. Keep playing with your car as though you were back in HD Chemistry Lab.
5. I have heard of the dreaded "service emission system" alert on other forums. I have not seen it myself maybe because I pay so little attention to the dash display. It seems to be a transient condition, I would like to hear what your dealer finds. I would not be too worried.
Keep posting and I will keep giving you my best guesses.
Mike
I have had my H-Escape for about 10 weeks and have almost 3500 miles on it. I have found that the Nav System Fuel Mileage display is at times most inaccurate, based on a comparison of gas-in and gas-out at the pump. I would say it overstates by 10%. It is still a good tool for trying to detemine patterns. I have found that you will not give the car long enough to build battery charge and properly warm up (in my environment of winter 30-50 degrees and hilly at high altitude) unless you drive it for more than a continuous 20 miles plus at a time. The longer I go the better the mileage.
1. Break In - I think the whole break in thing about mileage getting better with age is an old wives tale. I think mileage gets better because we drivers begin to hue to our cars and learn to drive them to the best mileage by watching patterns. That said I am seeing increasing mileage under the same conditions as the car gets older, and the EV time increases. I think this pattern would be the same in any car.
2. As I said, I have the Visteon Nav System so I seldom watch my dash gauge, and if fact, I think whoever thought up having the gauge showing how much electrical push is happening is a moron. Take out that thing and give me a digital percentage indicator of how much charge I have, or even a clock would be better. What I do always is take the number of miles displayed that is left before I run out (normally about 400 after a fill up), add another 60 miles because I think that number does not include the two gallons in the tank that is left when is tells me to fill up, and add both to the trip odometer reading. So if my starting figure is 460, I divide that by the 16 gallon tank and I am getting 28.75 MPG as I drive away from the pump. Most of the time I can maintain the total of 460 and sometimes more. When I quot my mileage to others I usually use my Nav figure instead of the lower figure I have just explained. That is my vanity I guess. I do not really watch the gas gauge dropping. Maybe someday someone will give us a gauge showing exactly how many gallons remain. I know NASA has been able to do this in their rocket tanks since the 1960's.
3. The H-Escape is not really a closed system because the driver has control over inputs. The way I have cycled over time and increased my battery cartoon from the original estimated 40%-75% to what I have now (low of estimated 15% and high of 90%) is as follows. To build the battery as high as possible I coast a lot and overuse my brakes. Not just using brakes, but heavy pedal pressure. To take the battery as low as possible I go on level back roads and parking lots and drive with almost no pedal to try to extend both EV time and distance. And when ICE comes back I try to get back into EV as soon as possible. It is almost like potty-training my car. But I think it has paid off. I am almost imagining that my computer firmware has an interactive side to it and is learning me. I don't know.
4. The EV will kick in sooner without a very very light foot and a low charge. I have also noticed that sometimes I expect something and something else happens. That seems to substantiate your 'algorithum vs. data' statement. I have hopes Ford will soon give us a good, less conservative firmware upgrade. I believe I am almost to the point where I can predict EV and force it on and know when ICE will kick in. At first I was able to stay in EV up to 30 MPH. Now I can stay up to 40 and get into EV at 40. Knowing the battery charge is important and I am glad I paid the extra King's Ransom for the Visteon Nav. Keep playing with your car as though you were back in HD Chemistry Lab.
5. I have heard of the dreaded "service emission system" alert on other forums. I have not seen it myself maybe because I pay so little attention to the dash display. It seems to be a transient condition, I would like to hear what your dealer finds. I would not be too worried.
Keep posting and I will keep giving you my best guesses.
Mike
#3
01-20-2005, 06:31 AM
Absolutlely not a wives tale
Originally Posted by sdctcher
1. Break In - I think the whole break in thing about mileage getting better with age is an old wives tale. I think mileage gets better because we drivers begin to hue to our cars and learn to drive them to the best mileage by watching patterns. That said I am seeing increasing mileage under the same conditions as the car gets older, and the EV time increases. I think this pattern would be the same in any car.
What happens with new engines is that all the metal pieces do not PERFECTLY fit yet. And as the pistons move up and down and create metal on metal friction, microscopic pieces of metal are "shaven" off. This added friction slowly diminishes over the first couple of thousand miles. But it is also this "added friction" which causes mileage to suffer. The engine has to work harder to push the away metal against metal to make some "room" before the oil can get in there good.
What I have most often seen said is that with a new car, you should change the oil after only 1500 miles, to remove the metal slivers out of the oil and filter. Then change again at 5,000 miles to Synthetic oil to get the least friction possible.
Go to any overhauling site or engine rebuild forum and you can find out all about this phenomenon, which is definitely actually real.
#4
01-20-2005, 09:58 AM
lars-ss,
the funny thing about the recommended oil changes is this; i took my hch to the dealer at 3500 miles and asked about getting the oil changed and their response was that honda requests that their new vehicles keep the same oil in the engine for the first 10,000 miles! any ideas or speculation on this? they are so adamant on this, that the service light is set to come on only after 10,000 miles. to include the first oil change.
the funny thing about the recommended oil changes is this; i took my hch to the dealer at 3500 miles and asked about getting the oil changed and their response was that honda requests that their new vehicles keep the same oil in the engine for the first 10,000 miles! any ideas or speculation on this? they are so adamant on this, that the service light is set to come on only after 10,000 miles. to include the first oil change.
#5
01-20-2005, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by l3ement
lars-ss, the funny thing about the recommended oil changes is this; i took my hch to the dealer at 3500 miles and asked about getting the oil changed and their response was that honda requests that their new vehicles keep the same oil in the engine for the first 10,000 miles! any ideas or speculation on this? they are so adamant on this, that the service light is set to come on only after 10,000 miles. to include the first oil change.
I change my own oil, so I don't have to deal with that problem !!
#6
01-20-2005, 02:48 PM
Severe if most of your trips are less than 5 miles
Originally Posted by lars-ss
Sounds to me it's just a dealer being a cheapskate. The 10K oil change is for the "normal" service schedule. Most people qualify for the "severe" service schedule, which is 5K changes.
I change my own oil, so I don't have to deal with that problem !!
I change my own oil, so I don't have to deal with that problem !!
The way I see it is, if I am going somewhere less than 5 miles away and not doing shopping, I could ride my bike or walk...
#7
01-20-2005, 06:01 PM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA (Near Palm Springs)
Posts: 245
I take it back! I just could never quantify what actually a 'break-in' was. The H-Escape also does not want us to change the oil until 10K. I need to check my manual but it is reported that the original oil is also synthetic and that should be maintained.
Additional things to consider that apply to me here in the high desert on the oil change interval are dusty off-road conditions, a wide range of operating temperatures (here 25 - 75 daily), and distance or time driven in each episode.
I have already ordered a oil filter and front air filter and they are reserved for me at my dealer. I am going in at 5K to change. The rear air filter cartridge for the batteries should be checked often also but it can be blown out (be careful of which way you blow it out). I have not received confirmation that my replacement is on hand although I ordered it a month ago. Ford Marketing said the number is 1L2Z 19E771 AA.
Until parts are readily available nationwide I plan to carry around with me on trips one of each filter. Just a precaution.
Mike
PS: Thanks for all the posts!
Additional things to consider that apply to me here in the high desert on the oil change interval are dusty off-road conditions, a wide range of operating temperatures (here 25 - 75 daily), and distance or time driven in each episode.
I have already ordered a oil filter and front air filter and they are reserved for me at my dealer. I am going in at 5K to change. The rear air filter cartridge for the batteries should be checked often also but it can be blown out (be careful of which way you blow it out). I have not received confirmation that my replacement is on hand although I ordered it a month ago. Ford Marketing said the number is 1L2Z 19E771 AA.
Until parts are readily available nationwide I plan to carry around with me on trips one of each filter. Just a precaution.
Mike
PS: Thanks for all the posts!
#8
01-20-2005, 06:16 PM
Hi All:
___From the analysis on new Honda oil over at BITOG (Bobistheoilguy), it contains more Moly then a std. or synthetic? Lubrication properties are supposedly increased but I am not up on the details as much as I should be.
___Sdcatcher, might I suggest you get off the pack a bit more for increased FE? The Prius I and II run the highest FE when the ICE is running without regen or full assist. Kind of a misnomer in the HSD and the Escape’s power split setup. Your pack being cycled heavily and is not a good thing for longevity. Let the pack SW take care of the SoC and you take care of the FE for a tank or two. I can bet your FE will improve considerably. I have never driven the Escape HEV of course but given the similarities of the 2.3 in the Ranger and the Escape, it is worth a lot more and with the ICE running, you will receive improved performance while achieving hypermileage as well.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___From the analysis on new Honda oil over at BITOG (Bobistheoilguy), it contains more Moly then a std. or synthetic? Lubrication properties are supposedly increased but I am not up on the details as much as I should be.
___Sdcatcher, might I suggest you get off the pack a bit more for increased FE? The Prius I and II run the highest FE when the ICE is running without regen or full assist. Kind of a misnomer in the HSD and the Escape’s power split setup. Your pack being cycled heavily and is not a good thing for longevity. Let the pack SW take care of the SoC and you take care of the FE for a tank or two. I can bet your FE will improve considerably. I have never driven the Escape HEV of course but given the similarities of the 2.3 in the Ranger and the Escape, it is worth a lot more and with the ICE running, you will receive improved performance while achieving hypermileage as well.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#10
01-20-2005, 11:10 PM
After about a 30 minute drive today the miles-to-empty display said 371 miles. When I got back in the car after 2 hours and started the engine, it said 307 miles. This information is completely worthless. We used to have an audi a6 and the miles-to-empty seemed really accurate. This isn't rocket science.
