Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars


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Old 10-04-2010, 09:51 PM
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Default Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

I'm moving this post from a thread I never should have posted it on. I'm ready to replace my OEM tires, and refuse to buy an equivalent Continental tire, or any that doesn't have a good rating or reputation as being a fairly quiet tire. My Ford dealer was of no use to me when I spoke with him lately, he knew little about tires or the FEH, or even availability of what his system recommended!

Looking at the tirerack.com it shows LRR status for the General grabber, and good reviews and spec's / stat's. tirerack.com does NOT display LRR anywhere I see for the Michelin Lattitude Tours, though Michelin's little sales pitch mentions it along with their GreenX label for certain tires. The General Grabbber is 10% (3lb) heavier than the Michelin Lattitude Tour equivalent, and almost the same RPM figure (1 less). The General is $50 each cheaper, and popular enough to be out of stock, but has 5,000 mi lower warranteed life. I HATE noise, and these get as good of reviews for being quiet as any, so I'm strongly considering them,,,, and SOON! ,,,as I've got 81K on my OEM Conti Eco-Plus screamers.

Any reviews / experience on these General Grabbers or other alternate tires?
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

If I were you I wouldn't worry about the extra 2 pounds on your tires unless mpg is critical. I'm using 38lb light truck all terrain tires on my FEH and the mpg loss has been 1-2mpg.

If you're concerned with noise you might want to consider tires in the 225/75-16 size (just make sure they meet/exceed the OEM load rating). In my experience the 10mm narrower contact area does not affect handling in any way and helps reduce noise. I think many conventional Escapes over the years were sold with 215 series tires.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

Here's my POV, FWIW: Get the Michelin Latitudes as Don suggested. I went to the same size (my OEM tires were 235/70-16). On my 06 FEH, I've suffered no loss in mileage. With the slightly narrower tread, but taller aspect ratio, the difference overall was minimal and my speedo is still on the money. I also keep my pressure at 45psi. The tires are very quite, compared to the Destinations that were on there. TireRack is running a special right now and you can get all four for under $600. Pretty good pricing for Michelins. OF course, my next step is to get a SGII, as Gary recommended.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

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Originally Posted by hcbflash View Post
I'm moving this post from a thread I never should have posted it on. I'm ready to replace my OEM tires, and refuse to buy an equivalent Continental tire, or any that doesn't have a good rating or reputation as being a fairly quiet tire. ...
I HATE noise, and these get as good of reviews for being quiet as any, so I'm strongly considering them,,,, and SOON! ,,,as I've got 81K on my OEM Conti Eco-Plus screamers.

Any reviews / experience on these General Grabbers or other alternate tires?
Yes! I did substantial research on new sneakers for my 2006 FEH 4WD. I just settled on the Michelin Latitude Tour 235x70x16 (same size as before). I have 106,800 on the odometer now. I liked the fact that Michelin had given them all "10" ratings (the highest) except for the off-road category. That included "noise", "braking" and "rolling resistance". All their other tires did not get that high a combined rating. I drove less than a 1,000 feet and was AMAZED by the quiet and lack of any vibrations. This is a very, very quiet set of tires (at least compared to my previous ones). It almost seemed like a new car!
However, I seriously question anyone who thinks they can judge any change in mileage due to tires. No two gas fill-ups are the same, the weather and wind change, the routes change, the uses change, the weights (people and stuff in the vehicle) change, ... there are simply far too many variables to "know" that the mileage has increased or decreased a mile or two with different tires. Ditto for the braking. I think we either find the stats in true scientific testing (perhaps Consumer Reports) or we have to take the manufacturers word for it (which is a bit dicey, at best). But noise, comfort and handling CAN be determined by many of us. I'd say this is one of the best tire sets I've ever purchased (I'm 65 years old and bought the very first radials that Sears offered (built by Michelin) back in about 1970 -- they were magic (at the time). Some of us can recall that everyone had flats all the time in those days (some carried 2 spares!) and the radials largely put an end to that ... thankfully. For comparison purposes I paid $821 installed with balancing, new valve stems, nitrogen, environmental fees, recycling, alignment and road hazard.
I'll try to report back after I have more miles on these and some experience in the snow (Maine). Good luck.
And, of course, stay after those tire pressures and rotate 'em - they'll last a lot longer.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

Do people REALLY concern themselves with 2 pounds?! If so, I hope they're careful with how much they eat before they go driving, don't drive in the rain and Never, Ever with snow or frost on the vehicle or if the wind is head on, and always wear shorts (no belt) and no shoelaces (keep toenails short), be sure to have plastic lenses in the glasses, vacuum the floors before leaving, pick the bugs off the headlight lenses, etc. etc. etc. And, of course, NO ROOF RACK, for sure. You could remove the windshield wipers when it's not raining. Never, ever roll down the windows whilst in motion. TWO pounds?? Whatever.

Inflate to 45lbs??! Surely, you jest? Isn't inflating to 45lbs a bit scary?? What effect does is have on panic braking? Tire wear (over inflation wears the centers out first) and just ignoring the warnings on the tire to NEVER, EVER inflate over 40lbs no matter what .... all a bit foolish and dangerous if you ask me. Stick with the recommendations made by those who know what they're talking about (Ford and Michelin engineers) and did the research to prove it. Endangering the lives of others so you can squeeze another bit per/gal is not worth it. You'll see what I mean if things ever suddenly go wrong... Foresight trumps hindsight every single time.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

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Originally Posted by RiverRat37 View Post
Do people REALLY concern themselves with 2 pounds?! If so, I hope they're careful with how much they eat before they go driving, don't drive in the rain and Never, Ever with snow or frost on the vehicle or if the wind is head on, and always wear shorts (no belt) and no shoelaces (keep toenails short), be sure to have plastic lenses in the glasses, vacuum the floors before leaving, pick the bugs off the headlight lenses, etc. etc. etc. And, of course, NO ROOF RACK, for sure. You could remove the windshield wipers when it's not raining. Never, ever roll down the windows whilst in motion. TWO pounds?? Whatever.

Inflate to 45lbs??! Surely, you jest? Isn't inflating to 45lbs a bit scary?? What effect does is have on panic braking? Tire wear (over inflation wears the centers out first) and just ignoring the warnings on the tire to NEVER, EVER inflate over 40lbs no matter what .... all a bit foolish and dangerous if you ask me. Stick with the recommendations made by those who know what they're talking about (Ford and Michelin engineers) and did the research to prove it. Endangering the lives of others so you can squeeze another bit per/gal is not worth it. You'll see what I mean if things ever suddenly go wrong... Foresight trumps hindsight every single time.
Might have to start a new thread asking if overeating affects your MPG?

OMG! Your going to hear from the overflated crowd. How about 50psi?

I use the suggested tire pressure on the door sticker.

Last edited by wptski; 10-07-2010 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

Looking forward to the over 50 crowd, but please, not on the highway (or at least, not on MY highway!) Why don't they just pour cement into the tire, anyway? OK, cement is heavy, I know. So why not just fill em with closed cell fiberglass foam? Good mileage that way.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:38 AM
 
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

Kidding aside, it's not the weight in the car that makes the big difference in MPG, it's the weight of the tires to get moving. You use more energy in gas and electric for that matter, accelerating with a heavier tire and rim. Why do you think the tire manufactures cut the weight to get a LRR rating? Also, there is a reason Ford has special liter weight rims on the FEH.

Every weather condition effects MPG no matter how heavy your tires and rims are, but you will still get better mileage in all those conditions with lighter tires and rims. Getting the best mileage in the FEH is my hobby and I can tell the difference big time. Just putting new Tours on the front of my '09 FEH made a big difference from the half worn Tours I took off. It's because the half worn Tours weighed less. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out either.

Those of you that don't mind getting 30mpg with the Eco-Plus LRR tires can easily drop to 28-29mpg with the Grabbers LRR tires and that's just fine for you. All I'm saying is you may find you get 31-32mpg with new Tours without changing your driving habits. I'm going to suffer 3-4mpg at first, just by putting the new Tours on the front of my '09 FEH. That's what happens when you are getting 60mpg tanks with tires that are lighter and half worn out tho.

GaryG
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

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Originally Posted by RiverRat37 View Post

Inflate to 45lbs??! Surely, you jest? Isn't inflating to 45lbs a bit scary?? What effect does is have on panic braking? Tire wear (over inflation wears the centers out first) and just ignoring the warnings on the tire to NEVER, EVER inflate over 40lbs no matter what .... all a bit foolish and dangerous if you ask me.
Yep, I've been doing 50-55psi for the last 20K miles, because my 6-ply tires (Load range 'D') are rated for 65psi. There are also 8-ply tires (Load range 'E') that are rated for 80psi that will fit on an Escape.
I've found 50-55psi is a pretty good compromise for ride/handling/mpg. So far wear is great! When I go off road or in the snow, I air down to 25-30 psi for improved ride/traction/protection.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: Repl tires other than Michelin or Continental

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Originally Posted by GaryG View Post
Kidding aside, it's not the weight in the car that makes the big difference in MPG, it's the weight of the tires to get moving. You use more energy in gas and electric for that matter, accelerating with a heavier tire and rim. Why do you think the tire manufactures cut the weight to get a LRR rating? Also, there is a reason Ford has special liter weight rims on the FEH.
GaryG
I have a tough time with this idea. In essence you say: "It's not the weight IN the vehicle but the weight of the tire and rim" And you go on to say it's not rocket science. Huh? To me it sounds like astrology or alchemy. We know that the engine and/or motor have to do the work (if not a downhill slope) and that takes energy. And they have to overcome the inertia (of a body a rest wanting to remain at rest). There is also rolling resistance and wind resistance -- but overall it's the weight that has to get moving. This is why car manufacturers work sooooo hard to get the weight of the ENTIRE VEHICLE down. It's an endless battle for them to remove weight. Tires and rims are part of it but I cannot accept the idea they they play a much larger role than the rest of the vehicle weight.
Can you describe the physics of your argument for me? I'd appreciate understanding it.
We know that the wind resistance is roughtly equal to the square of the speed, so we know it plays an ever greater role in MPG as speed increases (past some low point, of course). That said, I owned two vehicles that did better at 70 than they did at 60 (quite measurably better). I assumed that it had to do with various ratios in the drive train and the engine efficiency. I owned both for over 100,000 miles. It is definitely NOT true of my FEH. It's clearly best between 45-55 and starts falling off fast above that.
I just bought 4 Michelin Latitude Tours (235/70x16) for my 2006 FEH 4WD. It sure is a LOT quieter and smoother. But, altho I check and record my mileage at every tankful, I can't possibly know if I gained or loss a mile or two with the tire change. That's because my records show more variance than that with EVERY tankful. Wind, temperature, humidity, wet or dry roads, traffic, and a gazillion other things affect my vehicle dynamically (every fraction of a second). I couldn't get the same mileage in any two tankfuls if I wanted to. And what's more I can't fill the tank to the same level each time either (unless I overfill it and I ain't gonna do that).
Methinks, there are not simple answers to most of this stuff.

PS Can I assume you meant "light weight rims" as opposed to "liter weight rims"? If so, let me hazard a guess that Ford (and all manufacturers) are doing ANYTHING they can to get the wind resistance down and the weight down, including rims. Chevy has a goofy strip along the top edge of the pickup tailgates to help reduce wind resistance. I gather it adds something like .001 MPG to their overall.
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2010, 235x70x16, camry, continental, effect, emissions, escape, ford, hybrid, michelin, quiet, saturn, terrain, tires, vue, wrong

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