ScanGauge Data Depository - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars

ScanGauge Data Depository

  #1  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:36 PM
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Arrow ScanGauge Data Depository

This Thread Has Specific Rules!

I think it would be nice to have all the cool discoveries / findings about our great car in one place. So let's create a data "depository".

This is a place specifically for observations ONLY.
What have you seen? How does your car behave?

This is not a thread for questions about the ScanGauge or the FEH.
I do not want discussions or debates. Just Data. Use post #2 as a model.

Also, I find it frustrating when there is one line of helpful data on post #3 and one line of related data 6 months later on post #97. Lets try to keep things short, concise, and compact. If you didn't know, you can EDIT posts. If you find some cool data a week later, add it ( via Edit) to your first post! I would rather your data page "evolve" over weeks and months, than for your cool finds to be spread out all over the place. Since this won't be a discussion, there won't be any "flow" issues if you keep modifying your data over the weeks.

Repeat data is welcome! That is half the point of this. How do you know if your car is "normal" or not? Look and see how other people's car behaves and compare. This is not a place to discuss the "why".
This is just a place to put down "what is".

This came to my mind since purchasing the new SG with xGauge. There are so many things to monitor and figure out now, it is going to take months and months. I learn something new every week. So rather than have dozens of individual "finds" I am going to put all mine on post #2 here. So check back and re-read post #2 often!

Rules of this Thread

- ONE POST PER PERSON! ( please ) Ok, you can post more than once, if you feel it really makes more sense to do so, then editing something already there... use good judgement.

- EDIT your post as often as necessary.

- Keep posts related to data and "finds" you found out using your ScanGauge or similar tool.

- Make this a database, dictionary, or encyclopedia in nature.
Start a new thread and refer to this page to discuss something neat,
or a problem you are having.

- Pretty Simple ( let's keep it that way ) and Thank You for participating!

 

Last edited by gpsman1; 01-09-2008 at 03:06 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

My car is a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, Front Wheel Drive with approx. 50,000 miles.
I have a ScanGaugeII with xGauge, and firmware version 3.15.

I have used regular gas, 10% ethanol (E10), 20% ethanol (E20) and 30% (E30) in this car.

Accelerating up a freeway ramp at ~5000 RPM I get 134 Horsepower with gas.
Accelerating up a freeway ramp at ~5000 RPM I get 134 Horsepower with E10.
Accelerating up a freeway ramp at ~5000 RPM I get 134 Horsepower with E20.
Accelerating up a freeway ramp at ~5000 RPM I get 134 Horsepower with E30.

Cruise Control @ 65 miles per hour with regular gas = 32 MPG in winter
Cruise Control @ 65 miles per hour with E10 = 29 MPG in winter
Cruise Control @ 65 miles per hour with E20 = 27 MPG in winter
Cruise Control @ 65 miles per hour with E30 = 27.5 MPG in winter
Cruise Control @ 35 miles per hour with E30 = 42 MPG in winter

In the city, with gas in spring/fall, I get over 60 MPG with lots of hypermiler tricks.
In the city, with E10 in winter, I get about 48 MPG with all the hypermiler tricks.
In the city, with E20 in winter, and lots of hypermiler tricks, I get 42 MPG.
In the city, with E30 in winter, and lots of hypermiler tricks, I get 45 MPG.

The max. discharge current I have seen in a friend's 2007 AWD was 78A and the car had few miles.
The max. discharge current seen in my 2005 was 70 something amps, but I didn't write it down.
The Ford manual says max. amps is 78A. ( forget where I saw that... )

Going down a mountain grade, my HV Battery was allowed to charge to 78% from Regen.*
The battery icon on the Nav shows "full green" at 58% SOC.
*( This was at the end of the hill, so higher numbers may be allowed )

Going up a steep mountain grade at highway speed, air was 20's, CHT was 240'F, but Water Temp was only 193'F. I have FIA grille cover installed and will probably leave it all winter.

The required engine water temp. to enter EV mode is 140'F.
If already in EV mode, EV will continue down to 125'F.
EV is not allowed if water temp. is under 125'F.
This seems to be a hard-fast rule. Very consistent.
Required CHT for EV in below freezing conditions is 216'F, and stays EV until 190'F.
( engine comes on at 188'F ).
EV is possible in warm weather with CHT at 150'F or warmer. ( Engine comes on at 148'F )

When my car was new and for the first ~ 25,000 miles, my water temp was normally 184'F to 186'F.
Now at 50,000 miles, my water temperature is normally 191'F. No big change, just interesting.
I think my car runs 186'F on pure gas. ( getting hard to find )
My car runs 191'F on E10, and 193'F on E20. Odd, but true.
Las Vegas, July, with 114'F ambient temp. FEH was 192'F.
Denver, Winter, with radiator blocked with cardboard, climbing I70 to the Mtns, FEH was 202'F.

I have not yet found a relationship with catalyst temperature.
I have had EV with catalyst temperature of 726'F.
Catalyst is over 1000'F within 30 seconds from a cold start.
Catalyst value cools about 1'F per second when the engine is off, no matter the ambient temp.

If able, the engine will start every time HV battery SOC drops below 40%.
Under normal conditions, the generator will not charge the HV battery any higher than 53%.
With the HV battery below freezing temperature, my generator would not charge past 50% on 3 occasions.
Going down a steep grade, regen was reduced but was allowed to take the battery up to at least 78%.
Any time the HV battery is above 53% it will add motor assist to driving at any speed, to bring the battery back to 53%.
53% seems to be the the battery's "preferred state".

During a battery recalibration event my battery pack SOC got up to 90.3% for a few moments.
After a few moments, the car boosted electric power to the wheels and brought the pack SOC back to 53%.

Starting the car can lower the HV battery SOC by 3% to 10%.
Closer to 3% when the car is warm. Closer to 10% when the car is very cold.
During the start-up / warm up, HV Battery SOC can drop to as low as 30%.

Heat above 95'F in the battery box lowers the allowed battery discharge by about 1 amp per degree above this.
A parked car in the sun on a summer day can reach 145'F inside. You could lose 50 amps this way until it cools.
The highest discharge amps ever observed was 78 amps. You lose amps on a cold day also. Room temperature is optimum.

The Traction Motor exceeds 10,000 RPM at 77 miles per hour. Max. speed is 104 miles per hour in this car which equals 13,300 RPM.

The Max. amps in EV I've ever seen was 60 amps. Most often the ICE starts up if I try to pull more than 50 amps.
50 amps at 330v = 16,500 watts. 16,500 watts = 22 horsepower. So you get about 22 EV horsepower.
Monitoring amps is a good way to monitor how hard you can press the gas pedal and stay in EV.
Keep it under 50 amps, and you generally keep it in EV.*
* This applies to mild temperatures.

Cruising at 58 miles per hour on level ground takes 22 Horsepower.
Cruising at 68 miles per hour on level ground takes 34 Horsepower.
Going up a slight hill (3%) at 68 miles per hour takes ~ 50 Horsepower.
Going down a slight hill (3%) at 68 miles per hour takes ~ 12 Horsepower.
Lowest ICE Horsepower observed at idle was 4.4 HP
Highest ICE Horsepower observed under "floor it" condition was 134 HP.
Horsepower displays 0.0 when engine is "running" but fuel is cut during deceleration in "L" gear.
Horsepower = 0.0 may indicate fuel cut mode in other cases, so look for it.

The HV Battery will turn on the Air Conditioner if the battery box is warmer than 85'F, but will still allow EV.
The HV Battery will run the Air Conditioner full time and dis-allow EV if the battery box is hotter than 100'F.

Fall 2007, installed a 120vAC Engine Block Heater and HV battery warmer.
In a 45'F garage, the FEH engine warms to 100'F, and the HV battery warms to 65'F in 3 hours.
Outdoors in a gentle breeze, at 25'F, the FEH warmed to 85'F and HV battery 55'F in 4 hours.
Outdoors in a gentle breeze, at 10'F the FEH warmed to 83'F and HV battery 59'F in 5 hours.
The EBH is ~435 watts and the HV battery warmer is ~75 watts.

The SG with firmware version 3.15 has a feature to enable fuel cutoff to record properly.
You will find a menu for "cutoff" in the fuel menu. Default setting is TPS of 24.
The value for a FEH needs to be set to about 18 for optimal results.
The throttle does not always drop below 17 if you are "coasting" fuel cut at high speeds.
In fact, TPS is most often at 17 during fuel cut at highway speeds.

There is only one sensor, the CHT sensor. The water temp is scaled from that reading.

The LTFT or Long Term Fuel Trim is a good way to monitor ethanol in the fuel.
Each 10% of ethanol moves the LTFT up by about 3.5%.
The 2005 FEH ( and probably other years ) will flag a check emissions systems warning and check engine lamps if the LTFT exceeds 28% ( either plus or minus ).
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 12-02-2008 at 06:25 PM. Reason: fixed some CHT numbers, added LTFT info
  #3  
Old 11-24-2007, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

2005 4WD Escape

-SOC at 28.9%- seen in the last week, once at 26.9% in the last month immediately after starting
max at 61.2% 68.6% on long downhill in Maryland 1-19-08
82.4% mileage at 9912--
91.2% mileage at 18311 4-5-08
HV battery at Ford software programed Re-Conditioning?

-EV-FWT needs to exceed 154, CHT equal or exceed 188, can occur when Tav is 42.8 as it did on 12-21-09 with ambient temperature 27f

-FWT Water temperature on cold (under 34 degree) day must exceed 153 degrees after starting before EV is allowed. Once EV is allowed, the water temperature has dropped to 124 degrees before the ICE is fired up. Then EV is allowed after it exceeds 140 degrees F and sufficient SOC exists. Hit 187 degrees F on 11-22-07 while traveling 50-53 miles per hour on state highway at 7:45pm (27 degrees) when snow showers and blowing wind created the possibility of black ice. I have been recently using a cardboard sheet as a radiator wind block.
204F at the end of a six mile nearly 1200 foot elevation gain on RT 653 on 01-23-10 with outside air temperature 29F. Immediate drop in temperature at the top of the mountain to 182 within 45 seconds.

with the FIA winter covers on 800 mile highway trip--normal tempreature in the low 180's did hit 201 once during a longer uphill when the temperature was low 30's. Quicly bleeded off the extra heat via turning the fan on and heater temperature up. I use a 16 inch long lower grille blockage with plywood.

-CHT cylinder head temperature-was at 168 degrees when FWT was at 138 during electric drive mode when ICE fired up because SOC fell below 40%. The outside air temperature was 35 degrees-sunny-no wind at 4:15pm 12-18-07
12-25-07 2:30pm 36 degrees able to sustain electric mode at CHT of 158 and FWT at 142 before ICE came on when SOC hit 40%.
12-26-09 5:40am 29 degrees outside--driving the short (<1mile) distance from home to the YMCA for an early workout when I slowed for a stop sign, shifted into L and "popped" the vehicle into electric mode. CHT was 188 and FWT was 154. This happen two more times in the next 90 minutes--the drive back home and the drive to work. Both times at the same 188 CHT reading.
High of 248 at the end of a 6 mile nearly 1200 foot elevation gain on RT 653 01-23-10 with Fia covers and temperatures 29F. Very fast drop to the 218F within 45 sec at the top of the mountain.

with the FIA winter covers during a 800 mile trip in low 30s to upper 20's temperature CHT normally in the low 220's. One time it hit 239 during a longer uphill section while Fwt was 201.

CVT- as high as 145 during a 90 degree day on the less than 4 mile drive home. As low as 53 after sitting several hours at a ski area where the temperature was 12 degrees. During a long drive on the interstate (Dec. 2008) where the temperature ranged from the low 20's to single digits, the CVT held fairly steady at 140-141 degrees.

LFT--as low as -14.9 during EV or downhill coasting with ICE on--on 87 octance gas--correlates strongly with mpg. Lower the LFT, higher the MPG
as high as +4.6 on 9% grade, 1/2 mile hill at a speed of 28-30mph--on 87 octance gas
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TaV--as low as 34.6 after sitting 8.5 hours at work when the temperature ranged from -6 at 7:30am to 6 degrees at 4:00pm. This rose to 42.1 almost 4 miles later. The vehicle will perform a series of charges/discharges in an attempt to warm the hybrid battery temperature. You can notice this on the Scanguage II unit as the AMP values are small and then large while the SOC may only be in the low to mid 40's and the ChT and FwT are below normal levels for electric assist. On a 82 degree day (8PM) with high humidity, driving 50 mph on two land state highway for 20 miles resulted in a TaV of 80.2 F while the BTM was 86.2. Observation reveals TaV can decrease with highway speeds and increase in slow, stop and go traffic. Of course it will increase with electric mode use.

MeT electric motor coolant temperature on a 82 dree day (8pm) with high humidity, driving 50 mph on a two land state highway for 20 miles resulted in a 98.6 F temperature. Observation reveals this increases with stop and go traffic and with heavy electric mode driving

IGN-ignition advance--this varies from "8" at idle up to "31". 31 does not occur with heavy accleration. I'm still trying to figure this out. I do not have any data from ethanol useage in which the timing should advance to take advantage of the fuel.

Fuel pulse width: scanguage II is not reporting this value as of now but the Ford stated values are: 3-6mS hot idle, 4.5-5.5 mS at 30mph, 7-8mS at 55 mph.
Fuel pump: scanguage II is not reporting this value but it has the capacity of 45L/hr and/or 12.16 gals/hr.

E0 values were often minus 10 to minus 3 values
E25 values will be reported in the future
E25 Values: LFT as high as 12.3, only as low as 2.9 during coasting downhill. This negative value tended to gradually decrease after my E30 fillup. Initially, it would only be 0.0, after driving it gradually decreased and by 190 miles it was registering -2.3. Would more driving on E30 depress the value more or does the vehicle learn this? In general, with E25, there is a 6-9 percent in increase in value with LFT.
-NOTE after running a tank of E25, I refilled with straight gas and the LTFT returned to near normal readings within 10 miles! No three tanks before normal fuel trim readings.

E30 values: LFT as high as 15.1 and as low as 6.6 during coasting and after a quick fake shift. Initially the negative LFT was not possible immediately after a fillup and initially was in the 2.0-3.0 range. It took nearly 200 miles for a negative value to appear.

E35 value LFT as high as 17.3 and as low as 5.4 during coasting and after a quick fake shift with complete letup off the acclerator pedal. Again it took between 150 to 200 miles to realize LFT values approaching and reaching zero.

It should be noted these ethanol values were performed with "splash-blending/mixing" to the best of my ability. It is possible the values were "off". I need to find a blender pump to cross check my values. Note: in general, the LFT values are just under 1/2 of what the ethanol values are during splash blending. The check engine light does not come on until the LFT values exceed 25 BUT it takes the vehicle 10 or more miles to read the LFT changes correctly. MY check engine light came on when after I ran a blend of nearly E60 and only after I had ran approximately 12 miles on this blend. There was no engine misoperation at this blend. This indicates the check engine light is related to a "set" number, not to poor engine operation.

E85 values: with use of add on kit set to #5 (leaner) where as #6 is the center of the adjustment. LFT values range from 11-21 and 15-18 during cruising conditions. I have obtained over 30 mpg with this fuel blend for certain drive distances but not tank average-yet. On E85, the engine ChT runs anywhere from 6-14 F cooler. The radiator FwT runs 4-10 F cooler. Remarkable quick cooling effect occurs after one lets up off the gas pedal like after climbing a 3/4 mile hill.

MeT--Once the vehicle is warmed up:
-- Outdoor temperature around 60 F, electronic temperature ranged from 73-78 degrees during 42-50 miles per hour, two lane driving.
--Outdoor Temperature around 81 F, a short 5.5 miles city + rural drive netted an 88-95.6 F for the MeT.

FRP fuel rail pressure with the ICE on--slight variation with values between low 39.xx and at 42.1 tops. When in electric mode--the value will increase and I have seen 52.xx but this is meaningless because the vehicle is under electric power not liquid fuel. However this indicates if one desires to bump up the pressure (aftermarket hardware or cracking the ECU software) a little, 10%?, the hardware should not leak. Why bump up the pressure, In theory it atomizes the fuel better for more efficiency. Need real world result to document this. Also bumping up the pressure should allow one to use a higher blend of ethanol without an E85 conversion kit. Right now one can run somewhere around E55-60 before tripping a too lean condition.

FRT fuel rail temperature will vary with the outdoor temperature. I have had in the high 80's for FRT during a high 60 degree day. I have had 105 for FRT during a sunny, hot, humid day with the temperatures in the upper 80's. The FRT was 140 at startup after sitting 8 plus hours in the blacktop parking lot with temperatures in the upper 80's. After just over two miles of 55 mph travel on 4 lane highway, the temperature dropped to 112 F, a 28 degree drop. More data is needed here, especially during the winter months.

BTM was 91.8 after sitting in the hot (upper 80's) sun for several hours. This decreased 9 degrees during the just over two mile highway driving at 55 mph. It then inched upward 3 degrees during the next 1 mile during city driving at slow speeds.
 

Last edited by Billyk; 02-27-2012 at 04:37 PM. Reason: more information
  #4  
Old 11-26-2007, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

Originally Posted by gpsman1 View Post
My car is a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, Front Wheel Drive with approx. 50,000 miles.

The required engine water temp. to enter EV mode is 140'F.

Mine REQUIRES 155 to go EV for the first time. Haven't seen an exception to this.

In my car, HV battery temp only reads on my SG once per key cycle ( initial temperature at the time the car was started ).
My HV battery temp does not update while driving for some reason.

Mine seems to not update when cold, but once in the 60's, it starts updating regularly. The Tavg updates even when cold. After awhile, these two read mostly the same.
 
  #5  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

2008 FEH AWD, 2 months old

Oops' correction. It's Traction Battery Temp not Voltage that doesn't display.
SGII - Have never noticed Traction Battery Temp being displayed, or at least never observed it. Will look for the one time per key cycle anomaly previously described. All other Xgauge entries display normally.

SGII on Ford Ranger 3.0L Gas engine with 5sp manual. Observing GPH, discovered that fuel consumption coasting is slightly less in 5th gear, clutch engaged, compared to depressing clutch (neutral). Surprised me. So now I coast down in 5th gear with left foot on floor as opposed to having clutch depressed.
 

Last edited by KenE; 11-29-2007 at 02:35 PM.
  #6  
Old 12-06-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

I am interested in in hearing what others are seeing for the Max Discharge Current xgauge. Mine maxes out at 68 with SoC>55% and Battery Temp ~ 84F. However, on a low mileage 2006 FEH, it displayed 76 and flickered to 77 under similar conditions. A low mileage 2007 displayed the same. This might be an indication of pack aging, or maybe just reflects the differences in internal resistances. 80k miles is not that far away for me and I will keep tracking this.
 
  #7  
Old 12-06-2007, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

Carl, In my humble opinion, I don't think you have a problem. This is very unscientific, but I took these readings on wife's 08 FEH AWD a few minutes ago. Car is only 2 months old, with 1500 miles, so basically new:

SoC = 37.7%
MxD = 60.5
Batt temp, unknown (another 08 FEH that BTM will not read on SGII-xgauge)
However, TmX is 71.6deg.

Ambient temp in garage was 31.6deg. Wife just returned from a 2mile drive after car was sitting outside in 30deg for 2 hours, so Batt temp must have been relatively low.

As you can see, my Traction Batt Discharge Limit was lower than yours. I really believe the discharge limit is more of a factor of batt temp and SoC. As you can see, the SoC was quite low, because wife attempts to arrive at the house on EV with batt Voltage depleted (Bless her heart, I'll keep her for another 40 years). Anyway, since she drives this car almost all the time, and I drive a 2002 Ford Ranger, I can't provide much more at this time. But promise to monitor SGII under higher Soc and Batt temp and report back later.

I wish someone had the answer to why "08 FEH AWD Traction Battery Temp" will not display on SGII-xgauge with Ver 3.15 firmware????? I still think it's a different PID due to the extra AWD computer. Or perhaps a hiding Ghost in the CAN, and won't come out until next Halloween
 
  #8  
Old 12-31-2007, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

Here's the start of my record - 2008 FWD FEH and about 3,300 miles, EBH & Cloud Rider grille inserts (for winter driving).

Received my SGII four days ago and am already finding the following:

I'm able to see output amps in the 60's in EV (63 was the highest I noticed) - and this is in ~20 degree weather. They were just fleeting glimpses of 60's because as soon as I saw that I backed off the pedal pressure so I didn't kick the ICE in. Need more experimentation time to see if I can find the actual limits on my vehicle - is this something new for 2008's, or is something else happening here?

Seeing CHT temps when dropping from ICE-on to EV in the low 210's. Got CHT's of 211, 213 and 216 today when dropping into EV. (edited 1/3/08)

I also tried to set up the BTM gauge but got nothing in two key cycles - and I've got a FWD not AWD - so I removed it from my monitoring set.

Also noticing the odd RPM runup on a downhill that is mentioned in another thread. Not warmed up enough to do EV, SOC was only at about 51-52%, and as I was coming to a downhill stop sign it pulsed to ~2300 rpms two times in quick succession before I came to a complete stop. This happened this morning (12/31/07) and Friday (12/28/07) in the same stretch of road on my route to work.
 

Last edited by chesterakl; 01-03-2008 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Changed CHT info
  #9  
Old 01-10-2008, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

This is all very interesting. To monitor how hard you can press the gas in EV mode, I have had luck watching the EV battery voltage. I've noticed that any time the EV battery voltage drops to 290, the ICE will kick in no matter what. So I can accelerate faster with a well changed EV battery (ex. 53%).

I tried to watch the max current draw but the lag time doesn't allow for accurate measurements.

Also, I've noticed that when the charging current, MxC, reaches 43, while I'm in "L", the engine will start to brake rather than the battery charging. When this happens, I usually shift back to "D" because I don't know what effect this has on the ECVT and ICE. While in "D", I've never noticed any ICE braking.

I believe the MxC of 43 is an incorrect number. There seems to be quite a bit of lag so it's not very accurate. This is why I use the EvB and keep it above 290 volts.
 
  #10  
Old 01-16-2008, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: ScanGauge Data Depository

Please be aware that there are TWO versions of the codes for cylinder head temperature (CHT) out there on the web. One has been determined to be 'slightly' better than the other. The one that appears better (closer to reality) is:

07E0221624
046205160624
3010
000200010000
CHT

I suggest that to keep comparisions between cars "apples to apples" we all use the codes above.

Also, here is a good example of why MPG goes down in winter.
MxD = maximum discharge (green) MxC = maximum charge (pink)
The "peak" is at 95'F.
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 01-29-2008 at 02:46 PM. Reason: added graph

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