I am a general building contractor in San Francisco, CA. We are focusing our efforts on green building. As a part of my mission I am looking to buy an Escape Hybrid FWD. It would be used for sales calls - primarily for city driving. However, I only drive about 4-6000 miles a year. I walk or ride to my office most days and can do the same to clients homes that are in the neighborhood. Because of my low yearly mileage the additional costs for the hybrid technology doesn't really pay for itself (it would take approximately 20 years as compared with the the non-hybrid Escape). I realize that there is more at stake than dollars and cents. However I am also concerned that because of my low yearly mileage that the hybrid technology is being wasted and a standard vehicle would serve just as well - environmentally speaking, morally speaking, etc. Should I purchase an Escape Hybrid?

Thanks for your feedback.

Jeff King

 

Hi Jeff,

Since you're asking on the FEH/MMH forum, I'm assuming you need the utility factor and a prius or HCH or TCH that are greener would not fit the bill.

That being the case, then I think that if your projected usage, even as you say is low mileage, is 15min or greater during any leg of your drive, then the hybrid FE (Fuel Economy) and pollution will out perform similar non-hybrid, and esp so for city traffic with lots of stop/go.

I think for all hybrids, the 1st 10-15 min it takes for the system to warm up to max efficiency makes it just like any other vehicle of the same class/type.

If you had to get a vehicle, the fact that you're getting a hybrid will help to say "we want and willing to buy clean technology" to the auto industry.

On another note, have you consider pure EV? Check out http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com. If they are on schedule, there's a chance that one can get a 120mile/200mile range pure EV SUV in late 2007. It would fit your need very well. Unfortunately, there's no projected price published anywhere yet. [Edit: actually, their "about" page say $45k per vehicle fleet sale - projection. No mention of consumer sales]

 

or Check out the EV zebra from Zap at the autoshow at the moscone next week - they are available right away

 

Hi OCC,

Thanks for your response. If I understand you correctly the FEH needs to warm up for about 15 minutes before the hybrid technology is performing at it's optimum? After reaching this optimum, how long can the car be parked before it is considered a 'cold' start. I rarely am driving longer than 15 minutes between appointments so it seems that a standard engine is the same difference. I wish the EV were an option today because I like the vehicles that Phoenix is working on.
Thanks
Jeff King

 

15 maybe to be optimum.... however the vehicle will generally be able to enter EV mode within about 3 minutes or so.

 

Yes - I think the 10 -15 estimate is too high. Certainly the emissions advantages are starting to be realized as soon as the ICE is shutting off at stop signs and red lights.....??? [3 - 5 minutes depending on the weather, from a pure cold start. Much less if the system is still warm] Does CA offer business tax breaks for hybids and other "green" technology.....?

 

15 mins would not be normal in SF - I live in SF too and the temp is usually no lower than 40 and no higher than 75 - its ideal escape weather. My vehicle usually goes into EV in about 3 mins and only that long first time in the morning. The lower efficiency when cold effects all cars so your existing car is probably only getting aroung 10mpg or less when cold too

 

Yes, that is true. However for most FEH/MMH drivers with commutes or driving patterns less than 15min tends to be disappointed with their FE compares with EPA numbers...so dont use EPA numbers if you're interested in calculating saved $$.

I'm in southern CA and my wife's commute is ~10 min and 2-3hrs in between, and she's averaging ~23mpg. We would bring that avg up to about ~25-26 on the weekend...for just 2 days/week of longer driving time. That means we're at least getting 27-28mpg if not more on the weekend. But here's the comparison: the 03 Navigator we traded in for our MMH is EPA rated 15-17mpg...she was getting max 11mpg on her commute!!

By the way, I know that rolling hills is actually better for hybrids than normal cars on FE, but I wonder if many steep hills in SF would also benefit?

 

First of all, welcome to GH. If you haven't, please read the FAQ.


15 minutes of run time is generally what gets to optimum, however, you'll be able to EV about generally within 5 minutes, and you'll be in hybrid drive from start up, which is still more fuel efficient than a conventional Escape during it's start and warm up period.

Generally about 2 hours in non-freezing temperatures. In addition, if you're making short stops at any point, you can leave the vehicle "running" in EV mode, make your dealings, then EV away, all without using gasoline.


There are several options available today, including one that looks like a squished minivan; though the company name escapes me.

Don't fall into the trap of believing that you probably won't see EPA with the FEH due to your short commutes that you will with a conventional vehicle, you probably won't see EPA with either. You stated that you drive 4,000-6,000 miles a year, while that's not a lot, if gas prices doubled, which vehicle would you rather have for those drives?

You may be surprised; you may find you recoup the costs sooner than you think, especially if gas costs rise dramatically. In addition, you really shouldn't think of it that way. Do you question the payback period on a better stereo? Mag Wheels? Do you wonder when you'll break even buying a V8 instead a V6? Don't allow the stigma of "payback" to fool you.

However, hybrids work very well for some people, and others find that some conventional vehicles work very well for them, you made a smart move coming here, asking the questions, and doing the research. Don't wimp out now, and make sure you get whatever option is best for you, FEH or not.

 

I plan on buying an '08 when they become available next year. I live in a Ford town and have decided I want to buy a Ford (even if it is not one of the vehicles built in my town) to show my support of my fellow citizens in the community since we employ so many Ford employees (2 plants here).


I want a hybrid because I want to do my part to lessen my dependence upon foreign oil but still need a vehicle to transport kids around.

I have spent quite a bit of time reading this site as well as others along with countless reviews of other hybrid(ish) vehicles. The FEH may not be the perfect hybrid vehicle but I think it is a great move in the right direction. My hat is off to all of you that currently own/operate a FEH or a MMH.

GL