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Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

Old 12-24-2005, 12:08 PM
tigerhonaker's Avatar
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Exclamation Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

Hi Everyone;

I have been reading Threads and Post here for sometime and I would like to share some of my thoughts and ask for your thoughts as well?

I just really wonder how many members think like I do that it seems like if a member makes a comment on FE that the next thing you know, you have just started (World-War-Three). I'm really not joking and that is not the only Topic that will cause the same reaction from other members. I have had different members "PM" me and ask what is going on with this person or persons and they have had members "PM" them and ask them the same question or questions. In some cases (New Members more so and some Old Members) are not Posting their Questions or making any further Comments on Post because of the (Return-Comments) to them. I don't think that they are wrong because, I to a Certain Degree watch what I Post on certain Threads. I'm not the (Hall-Monitor) or certainly not anyone of any REAL-Importance on this Forum but I have put off for some time even Posting these Comments but it seems like to me that someone should make an attempt to bring this to Members attention.

I for one and speaking only for myself thought that Jason started this Site to: "Help"; "ASSIST"; "DISCUSS"; "PROMOTE" (HYBRIDS) and I (IMO) don't think he did it for members to be so Cocky, Condescending, Hateful, or Belittling to others, where they end up doing one of a couple of things like, Stop Posting or Go to another Site or in some cases Here, Read-Only.

I would hope that just maybe when this Thread is read by I feel like the members that are on this site the most that maybe they will take a second look at what they are saying to other Members that those Members are not choosing to Strike-Back and therefore just Don't-Post or Go-Away.

I think all of you will find this Last Remark from me interesting - I can assure everyone that under (NO-CIRCUMSTANCES) will I ever be Dumb enough to Post my (FE) when ever I take Delivery of my HCH ll. Who Needs the Ridicule, Not-Me: The FE Avg. Won't Suffer From Me:

Just One Members Thoughts,

Old 12-24-2005, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?


I really appreciate your honesty. One of the strengths of this community is that there's a lot of member feedback. While I am confident the atmosphere here is much more positive than at most any other forum I've visited (especially Edmunds, as most of us know), there are still things we do need to improve on. This is such a fuel-economy-centered community right now because of our wealth of hypermilers and the Real Hybrid Mileage Database that I'm sure at times our discussions become a bit misguided.

I will be making efforts to gradually pull GreenHybrid back towards a more general hybrid-promoting community and away from the radical "high-fuel-economy-or-die" ideology it may have on occasion.

I look forward to comments from our other members. This thread obviously has the potential to turn into a World War, of course, so please be civil and thoughtful. Your opinions are important.

Last edited by Jason; 12-24-2005 at 02:41 PM.
Old 12-24-2005, 02:13 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Leominster, MA
Posts: 2,161
Default Re: Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

One other issue are people feeling attacked because you like a different model then them. Maybe we need to re-think the forums and maybe add new ones for some of the more hot topic conversations. or something. I'll maybe try to put in a PM what I'm thinking you should do. Doing so here may take this thread off topic.
Old 12-24-2005, 05:43 PM
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Location: Lewisville (Dallas), Texas
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Default The Core Value of GreenHybrid?

Just before checking this thread, I was on the verge of a "Seasons Greetings" thread. Other than the intent to wish everyone well, I wanted to take a moment to apologize for the times I've mistakenly gotten into misunderstandings or painted things with too broad a brush.

There have been times I got posts out under without a lot of time (i.e. at work) - I'm sure others have too and misunderstanding happen...

I think there is quite a few members here that believe the theme here should be to promote fuel economy - hybrids are just one of the tools to accomplish this. While I hypermile in an Insight, I don't expect everyone to do this. I do have a problem when the occasional member promotes driving at the opposite end of the spectrum:
  • routinely drving at 80mph
  • going unquestionably at the pack speed, even if it's really fast
  • Aggressive driving in general
  • Trying to justify the largest size of power trucks and SUVs as commute vehicles (I'm totally unconvinced the majority of these drivers really need them - the need is in their head)
I'd be happy if the general population gets the smallest vehicle they need 90% of the time and drive the speed limit most of the time in a fuel-efficient manner. My vision of this is medium-sized trucks and SUV's would be the largest commonly seen vehicles, CUV's would replace many of the SUV's, more sedans and compacts. I hope that does not sound too radical. And yes, present this view with tact...

It's common knowledge that anytime someone seems to sympathize with the power trucks driving agressively like I've seen around my locale gets my blood pressure up. I have often offended others that are not the "target" but feel too close for comfort (or in a few isolated cases actually one of those bada$$ drivers/trollers). That was my reason for posting pictures of some of these offensive drivers - to avoid the broad brush problem (to those that had a problem with it - maybe this hits close to home )

To promote hybrids without advocating saving gas with more appropiate-size vehicles and courtous driving seems like expecting NutraSweet to reverse obesity without a life-style change.

I'd glad there is a place on the net to discuss and support fuel economy - there are not many automotive forums like this.

Last edited by Delta Flyer; 12-24-2005 at 06:07 PM.
Old 12-24-2005, 08:37 PM
My Wife's car but my toy!
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Default Re: Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

I think Jason and the Moderator's need to promote the ignore member post feature. I have started using it within the first week of getting my Prius. I'm not here to be flamed. If my facts are wrong PLEASE correct me with facts. Call me names and I'll just put you on the ignore list. If enough members ignore the same person then they should just be banned. Kind of like a peer vote.

I like the new guidelines that Jason posted but it does not mention the ignore list feature and even after refering a flamer to them he kept it up. Now I ignore him.
Old 12-24-2005, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

The world has its share of touchy subjects. In general abortion, religion and politics can get folks all stirred up so I tend to avoid these subjects. In addition to the big three I just mentioned every forum has its own touchy subjects. If you go to a computer web site wars will be raging over Intel vs AMD. Over at the jet ski forum the war is between stand up and sit down models. Here at Green Hybrid FE is a subject many feel strongly about. While I understand that many folks have strong opinions about FE everyone should remember that you catch more flys with honey. If you want more people to achieve higher FE lead by example. In time someone will notice and ask how you are getting such good mileage. You can't ram good mileage down people's throats.
Old 12-24-2005, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

Just a few of my thoughts and opinions, but what do I know ...

One thing everyone needs to remember is that people who are on here, except for the few that come just to cause trouble, at least have an interest in what the forum is about. Some may have read a post somewhere else that referred them here. They may have never thought about fuel efficiency beyond noticing how many miles they can get before their tank runs out. I think for a lot of people who come here, they are learning a new way of thinking and exploring a new world and want to learn, about the hybrids themselves, the people who drive them, and techniques they may learn to use themselves.

Not that I feel we should censor our thoughts and feelings, but act as mature adults and not let our primitive selves try to force the other to your particular train of thought. No two people are usually alike, and will have different techniques that work for them and different situations/climates/terrains that will make some things work better and others not at all. People are allowed to view it differently AND as said previously, leading by example is the BEST way to get across to someone.

You are allowed to disagree, and debates are a very good thing, but you must remain calm and collected. It IS possible for two people to both be right and be on opposite sides of a discussion. Try to understand, show that you are listening ... point and counterpoint. Try not to just bicker, argue, and vent your fustrations. If you start to feel too upset, take a break, eat a snack (low sugar can make you volitile), take a shower ... whatever you need to relax, then come back. Try to leave the other parts of life behind, remember you are talking to virtual strangers who have done nothing personally wrong to you, even if they don't have the same beliefs. LIFE IS TOO SHORT to get mad and give yourself a heartattack or stroke.

Not every person will follow all hypermile tips, but even if they follow only one, is that not an improvement? If every person no matter what they drive ... improved their efficiency only 5 mpg, wouldn't that have an EXTREME affect on the enviroment and consumption of fuel?

To those who haven't experienced overshooting EPA mileage by double digit percentages (I have personally beaten by about 65 % before), they may not understand why it is so exciting. People that are here unleash the opposite kind of potential out of thier cars. Instead of 0-150 mph in less than 10 seconds, in general those here see if they can get their instant fuel economy at 150 mpg for over 10 seconds.

People have a habit of excess. If not, how could they sell a McLaren F1 that has excessive performance for an excessive price? The aftermarket is flooded with superchargers, turbos, nitrous. The same can be said for trying to acheive hypermileage status. If we could get those engineers to work on our hybrid systems ... imagine the possibilities. We could have every car, even SUV's running on EV mode from a cold stop and the engine only kicking in for charging duties (and run on an alternative fuel at that). That is my dream of the future. Having the performance of a sports car at the same time being green. I WISH Toyota would make the Volta ... I promise they would sell at least one of them.

It was a hard transition from a high end sports car to higher FE vehicles, but once you adjust, it is much more satisfying in so many ways. I still don't own a hybrid, but I did go from a car with 17/25 ratings to 35/41 ... now can't wait to get that much more!

I will stop rambling to everyone about stuff you already know/feel ... sorry for the length, take care everyone

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 12-25-2005, 08:21 AM
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Default "Overnight Conversions"? - You're Probably Dreaming

Originally Posted by lakedude
The world has its share of touchy subjects. In general abortion, religion and politics can get folks all stirred up so I tend to avoid these subjects.
I could dwell a lot on the above topics, but the past indicates that flame-wars will very likely happen and leave a lot of people unhappy. I do have convictions on these topics - just feel it would turn negative inspite of my best efforts to keep it civil.

I left a hybrid forum on the other extreme that eagerly locked threads at slightest mention of politics. The happy medium seems to be what usually happens at GreenHybrid - a civil discussion of politics if it relates to hybrids/energy/environment.

Toyota vs. Honda - Mac vs. Windows....
Going from religion and politics, Toyota vs. Honda seems so petty as they both put out excellent products and currently have at least 90% of the hybrid market. In the big picture, we need more automakers introducing hybrids.

The Myth of Overnight Conversions
While people can change conviction quickly - does this happen very often? Think about it. I do know for instance of a jock that stopped doing beer commericial commericials because he saw beer cans rolling out of a wreck - yes it can happen.

What many of us hypermilers forget is it took awhile to want to drive for economy, then awhile to learn the techniques to become expert at it. My advise is to be patient with new members. I moderated at a pet forum that was dominated by a reputable breeder that took her dogs to the shows. She ran off a lot of members ranting at newbies, suspecting them of the worst of intentions when it might have been ignorance.

My caveat is I've had and will continue to have problems when someone seems to advocate aggressive driving.
Old 01-24-2006, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: "Overnight Conversions"? - You're Probably Dreaming

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer
Toyota vs. Honda - Mac vs. Windows....
Going from religion and politics, Toyota vs. Honda seems so petty as they both put out excellent products and currently have at least 90% of the hybrid market. In the big picture, we need more automakers introducing hybrids.

Which is why you post a poll asking who makes the best hybrids, right?

Like all discussions of this nature, I think we all have our own lines. Personally, I have a lot of tolerance for people who are in the giant SUV mentality, and are slowly (Or even very slowly) shifting their focus to something more economical and smaller, as well as speed demons reforming into gas misers. However, I have little tolerance for people asking a question in a thread that's exactly the same that's asked and answered two threads down on the same board, and even less for the same person asking the same question again in a new thread that said person asked a month prior in an older thread.

At the same time, I think trying to focus the site off the FE aspects may be tricky, as that's rapidly become the backbone of this community, not the obsession with good MPGs from all users (I don't think), but in sharing ideas and techniques to get the most from their considerable investment. While I haven't seen it (though this may be because of the FEH mentality of most of the people I interact with here), if people are harassing others for poor MPGs, then that should be unexcusable. (Though I suppose an exception should be made if they live in the same household, and share the same commute at the same time of day, for some reason don't carpool, and have widely disparate FE. )

Perhaps a gentle reminder may do the board some good. Kind of like Sexual Harrassment Training, not needed for most people, not anything new, but something that may remind a few errant seeds that they've perhaps strayed a bit and that everyone suffers through.

OT: I thought this thread was going to be about the comment section in the gas tank info, and what people put or don't put there.

Last edited by Pravus Prime; 01-24-2006 at 11:28 PM.
Old 01-25-2006, 10:55 AM
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Location: Southeast Michigan
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Default Re: Whats Your Take On "COMMENTS" Regarding (FE) ?

The best approach for an open forum is for everyone to exercise self-control. I think that this has been generally true for GH - more so than for a lot of other forums.

It is interesting that when an acceptable behavior for a society is established, most members choose to abide by the rules. When absolutely necessary, the exceptions can be dealt with by applying special sanctions.

But in addition, there is the eleventh commandment: *Thou shalt not be too sensitive.* We each have to determine the point of difference between being too sensitive and being violated for ourselves, but well intentioned people can work it out.

My personal focus is not so much on FE, but on ecological benefits. Yet I have a feeling of accord with those who stress FE - recognizing the passion they feel and also realizing that monitoring and improving FE also positively affects other advantages of hybrids.

If ever I should feel that the emphasis here is too FE oriented for me, I will post a comment to that effect, wish my colleagues on the site well, and retire as a member.

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